They had a PLAN!

They had a PLAN!

This is a discussion on They had a PLAN! within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So what did they do right? First THEY HAD A PLAN AND CARRIED IT OUT!! When THEY went to the door they had their guns ...

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Thread: They had a PLAN!

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Sportymonk's Avatar
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    They had a PLAN!

    So what did they do right?

    First THEY HAD A PLAN AND CARRIED IT OUT!!

    When THEY went to the door they had their guns drawn. They were R E A D Y.

    When he didn't recognize the person banging on the door, even though they said they were a "neighbor" HE DIDN'T OPEN THE DOOR!! YEEEAAAHHH!

    Next, while one talked to the person at the door, the other called 911. TEAMWORK Yeah!! It sounds like they had talked about this or had been listening to Polite Society Podcast.

    Also they had layered security. No only did they have the door locked but they had surveillance cameras recording and the video showed a man they couldn't see at the time hiding just out of sight. --- No telling how this story would have played out if he had even just cracked the door.

    And if he had decided to break the door open, they were both both ready. We can't tell from the story but if the hidden man had kicked the door open, it probably would have been much different.

    {Side Comment - In NC one of the steps in a self defense incident is if the bad buy forcibly enters your home. If you open your door and "let them in" you may perhaps have made your defense more challenging. Maybe not but why give the DA any help in putting a notch in his belt so to speak?}

    What did they do wrong?


    NOTHING!! The only maybe was they let the lady at the door know police were on the way. Some might say that they sould not have let her know so that she would still be there when police arrived BUT they didn't know about the man hiding just out of sight. We aren't the police, let the police do their job.

    The important thing is they are safe. NO SHOTS FIRED. AND THEY DIDN'T OPEN THE DOOR! All because they had a plan and carried it out.

    Listen to The Polite Society Podcast on the Self Defense Network.

    https://abc11.com/johnston-co-man-re...-door/5325423/
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  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array Novarider's Avatar
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    You're saying that in NC if you open the door you cannot legally defend yourself? Opening the door and them pushing their way in is not "letting them in".

  3. #3
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    "{Side Comment - In NC one of the steps in a self defense incident is if the bad buy forcibly enters your home. If you open your door and "let them in" you may perhaps have made your defense more challenging. Maybe not but why give the DA any help in putting a notch in his belt so to speak?}"

    I doubt it would make much difference whether one opened the door, as without being "invited" to enter, it would still be forcible entry with the intent to commit a crime.

    In FL, one can defend from unlawful entry or "attempt" to enter. Opening an unlocked door has been ruled in case law as "forcible entry," as it takes a measure of force--no matter how minute--to open an unlocked door.
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  5. #4
    Member Array m5215's Avatar
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    I would go one step further and never answer the door at anytime during the day or night unless its an expected delivery of something or if there were previous plans for visit from someone at a specific time. If anyone wants to contact me at a random time of the day they know to call me, not just come over at anytime otherwise the only thing they will see is my front door.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by m5215 View Post
    I would go one step further and never answer the door at anytime during the day or night unless its an expected delivery of something or if there were previous plans for visit from someone at a specific time. If anyone wants to contact me at a random time of the day they know to call me, not just come over at anytime otherwise the only thing they will see is my front door.
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  7. #6
    Member Array Goldstar225's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m5215 View Post
    I would go one step further and never answer the door at anytime during the day or night unless its an expected delivery of something or if there were previous plans for visit from someone at a specific time. If anyone wants to contact me at a random time of the day they know to call me, not just come over at anytime otherwise the only thing they will see is my front door.
    I would then recommend that you be prepared for a forced entry to your home for the next few moments at least. That knock at the door may be an annoying door-to-door salesman or it could be you local friendly burglar engaging in "casing behavior". A standard practice is to knock on a door or ring the doorbell. If someone responds the burglar is looking for a friend and must have the wrong house. He then goes elsewhere. If there is no response from the resident he/she makes entry, usually through a door (front or rear) less frequently through a window. We did have a crew a few years ago that gained access to the attic through a garage access door and would then enter the house by busting a hole in the ceiling.

    I'm NOT saying open the door, just make your presence known "Who is it, not interested, go away".

    Yes, I'm sure those who won't answer the door are armed and prepared to fight to the death (preferably of the criminal) but again, the battle most easily won is the one you don't have to fight.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array Sportymonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novarider View Post
    You're saying that in NC if you open the door you cannot legally defend yourself? Opening the door and them pushing their way in is not "letting them in".
    Not saying you cannot defend yourself as others have pointed out below you can. Pushing their way in would constitute force. But a sharp lawyer could say you opened the door and they entered without force. Not likely to carry the argument but you never know. Not opening the door is a better idea.
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    If you think things are bad for you, Remember there is a Mr. Pelosi!
    Duct Tape may not fix stupid but it sure can muffle the sound! :D
    It isnít the first person who fires who wins gun fights, but is usually the first person to land effective hits.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array ugh762x39's Avatar
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    Another little quirk of the Law here is that if someone is attempting to break through your door, you are Legally allowed to shoot through the door in order to stop them. However, once they make entry, you must then be able to prove that you were in fear for your life before you fired. I guess that what you donít know can get them killed until they make entry and you can see what you are up against.

    There used to be a Law in one of the Middle Eastern countries that stated you could take the life of an intruder during evening hours but, not if the person broke into your home during the daytime. The thought was that because it would be rare that someone would be home during daytime, the intruder was not prepared to do violence upon the homeowner. As opposed to nighttime when the home was sure to be occupied.
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  10. #9
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ugh762x39 View Post
    There used to be a Law in one of the Middle Eastern countries that stated you could take the life of an intruder during evening hours but, not if the person broke into your home during the daytime. The thought was that because it would be rare that someone would be home during daytime, the intruder was not prepared to do violence upon the homeowner. As opposed to nighttime when the home was sure to be occupied.
    That's pretty much how it is here in Virginia. Someone who breaks into your home during the daytime hours is a trespasser. As such, you must be in imminent fear of serious bodily harm before a deadly force response is justified. At night, this person would be considered a burglar, which is one of the five felonies for which a deadly force response is justified.
    duane_wade and ugh762x39 like this.
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    Member Array m5215's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldstar225 View Post
    I'm NOT saying open the door, just make your presence known "Who is it, not interested, go away".
    Good point. Let me add one more consideration to add to yours. When speaking through a closed door do not stand directly behind the door. In case someone is planning on busting the door down with you right behind it or shooting through the door you will be in the line of attack by being directly behind the door. Approach the door from an angle and stay there that way you can engage the target as they attempt to enter rather than recovering from an attack from or through the door.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by m5215 View Post
    Good point. Let me add one more consideration to add to yours. When speaking through a closed door do not stand directly behind the door. In case someone is planning on busting the door down with you right behind it or shooting through the door you will be in the line of attack by being directly behind the door. Approach the door from an angle and stay there that way you can engage the target as they attempt to enter rather than recovering from an attack from or through the door.
    True. This is something I have been doing for many years.
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  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldstar225 View Post
    I would then recommend that you be prepared for a forced entry to your home for the next few moments at least. That knock at the door may be an annoying door-to-door salesman or it could be you local friendly burglar engaging in "casing behavior". A standard practice is to knock on a door or ring the doorbell. If someone responds the burglar is looking for a friend and must have the wrong house. He then goes elsewhere. If there is no response from the resident he/she makes entry, usually through a door (front or rear) less frequently through a window. We did have a crew a few years ago that gained access to the attic through a garage access door and would then enter the house by busting a hole in the ceiling.

    I'm NOT saying open the door, just make your presence known "Who is it, not interested, go away".

    Yes, I'm sure those who won't answer the door are armed and prepared to fight to the death (preferably of the criminal) but again, the battle most easily won is the one you don't have to fight.
    I agree. Here are some more things I learned working as a cop for 24 years:

    1. Residential burglars regularly knock or ring doorbells to see if anyone is home. If someone answers they make excuses and go elsewhere. If no one answers it is time to get to work.

    2. The overwhelming majority of residential burglaries occur on weekdays during the day time hours. Why? Because that is when most people are out working for a living to keep the house stocked up with the things burglars want to steal.

    3. In many cases the burglar knows his victims and may have been in the home in the past. Types of possessions and where those are located are frequently known.

    4. Typical residential burglar is 14-16 years of age, and many burglaries are committed on the way to school or on the way home from school.

    5. Typical residential burglar commits about 140 burglaries per year, average cost (property damage and theft) about $1200 per crime (approx. $168,000 annually), and adds about $70 per year to every homeowner's insurance premiums (while only about one in 24 homes is burglarized per year we all buy insurance from the same sources, and the costs are passed on to all policyholders).

    6. Most common method of entry is through a door, about 20% of the time through an unlocked door. Unlocked windows are also a frequent point of entry. Typical residential door is mounted to a wooden door casing about 5/8" to 3/4" thickness, using hinge screws and lockplate screws about 3/4" long, making it very easy to break through by kicking the door in and breaking the door casing (a far better method is to use 3" long steel screws passing completely through the door casing and into the wall framing, takes about 10 minutes per door to accomplish). The best deadbolt locks in the world are no stronger than the materials to which they are installed.

    7. Most frequently stolen items are money, postage stamps, jewelry, prescription drugs, portable electronic devices, firearms (not in any particular order), usually items that can be carried away in a pocket or bag. Most homeowners keep their stuff in similar places (dresser or nightstand drawers, closets, under the beds, etc, making it fairly easy for a burglar to make a quick dash through the house and hitting the most likely places. A little creative thinking in storing your valuables can be quite effective.

    8. Residential burglars will sometimes make mental notes of other things they see in a home (computers, flat-screen TV's, etc) and may return for another load later when they have a ready buyer for certain items. Repeat burglaries are pretty common.

    9. Residential burglaries are solved by police only about 3% of the time, and stolen property is seldom recovered (less than 2%). Career burglars may have as many as 20 or 30 prior convictions before ever receiving any jail time, and juveniles are almost never locked up. Court-ordered restitution (perpetrator ordered to pay damages to victims) is almost never enforced.

    10. Never forget about "funeral burglars", those who watch obituary and funeral notices and plan their burglaries for the time of the funerals and receptions. Always a good idea to have someone remain at the home while family and friends are attending the services.

  14. #13
    Distinguished Member Array The Old Anglo's Avatar
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    Why I Never open my door to strangers after Viewing them on camera!. What awaits them on the other side is Ugly if they decide to Force the Issue. The 911 call will include instructions to bring a bag. Just Leave us Alone!.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by retired badge 1 View Post
    I agree. Here are some more things I learned working as a cop for 24 years:

    1. Residential burglars regularly knock or ring doorbells to see if anyone is home. If someone answers they make excuses and go elsewhere. If no one answers it is time to get to work.

    2. The overwhelming majority of residential burglaries occur on weekdays during the day time hours. Why? Because that is when most people are out working for a living to keep the house stocked up with the things burglars want to steal.
    Absolutely dead on. Almost all residential burglaries occur during the daytime during the normal work week. Business burglaries occur during the night.

    3. In many cases the burglar knows his victims and may have been in the home in the past. Types of possessions and where those are located are frequently known.
    My experience is different. For us, I'd say the ratio is about 15% have been in the home before with the other 85% not. However, I'd estimate between at least 40-50% are within sight range of their victims or, at the most, one street over.

    4. Typical residential burglar is 14-16 years of age, and many burglaries are committed on the way to school or on the way home from school.
    For my area, you'd have to expand that age range to about 14-23. From what I've seen, by the time the thug is hitting 20-21 y/o mark, most are moving on to bigger crimes. That's not to say they won't pluck low-hanging fruit, if they're older.

    5. Typical residential burglar commits about 140 burglaries per year, average cost (property damage and theft) about $1200 per crime (approx. $168,000 annually), and adds about $70 per year to every homeowner's insurance premiums (while only about one in 24 homes is burglarized per year we all buy insurance from the same sources, and the costs are passed on to all policyholders).
    I'd say this is pretty close to the mark. Once they get comfortable doing them, a good guess is about every 3-5 days is when they'll strike.

    6. Most common method of entry is through a door, about 20% of the time through an unlocked door. Unlocked windows are also a frequent point of entry. Typical residential door is mounted to a wooden door casing about 5/8" to 3/4" thickness, using hinge screws and lockplate screws about 3/4" long, making it very easy to break through by kicking the door in and breaking the door casing (a far better method is to use 3" long steel screws passing completely through the door casing and into the wall framing, takes about 10 minutes per door to accomplish). The best deadbolt locks in the world are no stronger than the materials to which they are installed.
    In my area, about 85% are through the doors (front or back, doesn't make a difference. One swift kick, two at the most, and they're inside with the door shut again before a neighbor, if one might be home, can look outside). Security doors help a lot to make it more difficult to get inside easily. Another 10% come through windows they break out or by pushing a window A/C out of the frame. The last 5% was a combination of shared attics in duplexes, crawling through doggie doors, etc. Also, before I became a cop, I worked at an acrylics factory. They made sheets of acrylic that could be cut to fit in security doors and into windows instead of glass. It came in two versions; one was with a hardener agent in the acrylic and one without. Thickness could be up to 1/4" thick. That stuff with the hardener was some tough stuff. Hit it with a 3 lb. sledgehammer and you might knock yourself out when it bounced off, leaving a white scuff mark where it hit.

    7. Most frequently stolen items are money, postage stamps, jewelry, prescription drugs, portable electronic devices, firearms (not in any particular order), usually items that can be carried away in a pocket or bag. Most homeowners keep their stuff in similar places (dresser or nightstand drawers, closets, under the beds, etc, making it fairly easy for a burglar to make a quick dash through the house and hitting the most likely places. A little creative thinking in storing your valuables can be quite effective.
    Yep, the burglar wants to get in and out fast, so no lugging the couch out to be loaded on a truck.

    8. Residential burglars will sometimes make mental notes of other things they see in a home (computers, flat-screen TV's, etc) and may return for another load later when they have a ready buyer for certain items. Repeat burglaries are pretty common.
    Or, if they've gotten your 40" flat-screen, they'll wait until you've replaced it.

    9. Residential burglaries are solved by police only about 3% of the time, and stolen property is seldom recovered (less than 2%). Career burglars may have as many as 20 or 30 prior convictions before ever receiving any jail time, and juveniles are almost never locked up. Court-ordered restitution (perpetrator ordered to pay damages to victims) is almost never enforced.
    Please repeat the part about stolen property seldom being recovered. We've had "Operation Identification" around since I was a kid. I won't say how old I am but it's old enough that I've lost some of my hair and what remains is mostly grey. Back then, it started with engraving your SSN on the item. Here's a BIG tip for folks. If you didn't write the identifying information (Make, Model, Ser. # or Owner Applied Number {OAN}) down, kiss it goodbye unless we catch them running out of your house with it. With that kind of information, we have a much higher chance of recovering it when it gets taken to a pawn shop, police do a raid on dope boy's house and we run the info on things in the house, etc. For an OAN, you can do what the experts say to do for a computer password....just make up random letters and numbers. Just be sure to write down what the OAN was. I used to tell people when I put on a neighborhood watch presentation to get a single-subject spiral notebook and make three columns inside for make, model & ser. #/OAN. Thieves don't steal something like that but if you get hit, you can go straight to a single source for all the necessary information for the report.

    10. Never forget about "funeral burglars", those who watch obituary and funeral notices and plan their burglaries for the time of the funerals and receptions. Always a good idea to have someone remain at the home while family and friends are attending the services.
    It's definitely happened to more than one family.
    TSKnight and Sportymonk like this.

  16. #15
    Senior Member Array Illusive Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldstar225 View Post
    I would then recommend that you be prepared for a forced entry to your home for the next few moments at least. That knock at the door may be an annoying door-to-door salesman or it could be you local friendly burglar engaging in "casing behavior". A standard practice is to knock on a door or ring the doorbell. If someone responds the burglar is looking for a friend and must have the wrong house. He then goes elsewhere. If there is no response from the resident he/she makes entry, usually through a door (front or rear) less frequently through a window. We did have a crew a few years ago that gained access to the attic through a garage access door and would then enter the house by busting a hole in the ceiling.

    I'm NOT saying open the door, just make your presence known "Who is it, not interested, go away".

    Yes, I'm sure those who won't answer the door are armed and prepared to fight to the death (preferably of the criminal) but again, the battle most easily won is the one you don't have to fight.
    I had a "pizza deliver" guy show up at my door after 11pm one night. He didn't look at all like a delivery person and I didn't see a car (but he had the hot bags). Know one EVER comes to my door that time of night. I spoke to him through the door with my pistol in my hand. It didn't feel right (since I had not ordered a pizza).
    Sportymonk likes this.
    A man, without force, is without the essential dignity of humanity. Human nature is so constituted, that it cannot honor a helpless man, although it can pity him; and even this it cannot do long, if the signs of power do not arise.

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