It can't happen here...

It can't happen here...

This is a discussion on It can't happen here... within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; The following was posted on Facebook by Jimmy Meeks who works with Lt. Col David Grossman (if you don't know who he is, you should). ...

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 31
Like Tree108Likes

Thread: It can't happen here...

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    6,407

    It can't happen here...

    The following was posted on Facebook by Jimmy Meeks who works with Lt. Col David Grossman (if you don't know who he is, you should). Meeks is a retired police officer and has been a minister for many years. He presents seminars on church security through the organization, Sheepdog Seminars. This is a very thoughtful reflection on what happened last weekend in El Paso.

    A girls soccer coach - Ben McGuire - was at the Walmart in El Paso when the attack began. He and the girls, along with some of the parents, were hosting a fundraiser when the gunman entered and began to kill. Some of those with Coach McGuire were shot (all survived).

    They fled through the store and went out back.
    The coach soon reentered the store and came across a dead body. “The visual I have from that ... will sit in my memory bank forever,” he said.

    There is something else Coach McGuire also said. Here are his words:
    “This is the last thing El Paso ever thought would ever happen... I had two parents that I spoke to on my team the other day and they said ‘you know we have CHL licenses.’” Coach McGuire then asked them: “Why weren’t you carrying...?” Now read this carefully, because it is their reply to Coach McGuire: “We’re at Walmart for a fundraiser for our kids, WHY WOULD I NEED TO...”

    If you can legally carry, and you are training, the fact that you are at a store with YOUR KIDS is...THE VERY REASON YOU WOULD CARRY ...
    These quotes are from Coach McGuire in an interview he did today on NPR.

    WHAT was missing? The mindset. The belief “it would never happen here.” Coach McGuire also said: “This is not El Paso.”

    El Paso is a huge town with a very low crime rate. But, forever etched in their memory, is this horrible event.
    El Paso, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago. Or Sutherland Springs, Texas (population 600 - site of where 26 people were shot and killed in a church). It doesn’t matter where. There is no safe city where violence cannot occur.
    Your city is NOT exempt from a “wolf attack.”

    Our hearts are absolutely broken over this recent spree of killings. I don’t pretend to have all the answers. But if you can legally carry, and you train, perhaps you should carry. These killers are not going to stop. NOT ... GOING ... TO ... STOP ...

    Do you remember the “other Walmart attack,” the one that occurred in June of 2018 in Tumwater, Washington?
    A pastor - a preacher - stopped it. His name is David George. After preaching his Father’s Day sermon, he and some of his family went to the Walmart in Tumwater, Washington.
    While there, an active killer showed up and opened fire.

    Pastor George was ARMED. He confronted the killer and shot him dead. He then treated the wounded at the scene.
    Motivated by love for your family and friends, as well as the members of your community, .... train and consider carrying.

    As Colonel Grossman likes to say, “I am my family’s secret service.”
    It is absolutely essential that you understand the PRESENT TIME in which we live.
    There are over 350 million guns in this country. Whether or not you believe there should be is completely irrelevant to the present day. And no matter how hard our government tries, it will never remove guns (of any type) from ALL the hands of those with hearts bent on killing.It is a matter of common sense.

    Furthermore, while our politicians argue with one another over what should be done, you need to understand what YOU need to do: protect those you love.

    Have the same attitude that the sons of Issachar did, as recorded in 1 Chronicles 12:32. It says of them that they “understood the times and knew what Israel should do...” As God’s people, we must know that there is NO reason to panic: God the Father is on His throne. God the Son is at His right hand. God the Spirit is in our heart.

    There is no reason to PANIC, but there is every reason to PREPARE.
    If something is important enough, you will find a way. If it's not, you will find an excuse.
    Every man dies, but not every man truly lives.
    If you are asked to be the hero, be the hero.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Array ButtShot14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    517
    Wow. Some good words for sure. Thanks Raven for sharing with us.
    G26Raven and airslot like this.

  3. #3
    New Member Array Basis219's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    3
    Nice! thanks for sharing
    G26Raven likes this.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    DefensiveCarry.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Member Array montejames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    139
    Stolen from: https://stiltonsplace.blogspot.com/2...sequences.html

    Unintended Consequences

    The recent rash of mass shootings has left the nation stunned but, sadly, not speechless. The usual media and political suspects are saying the usual things, using the bodies of the innocent as a sickening ideological soapbox.

    We're not going to do that here. These gruesome murders are not about, nor caused by, politics. Rather, they are the unavoidable and perhaps unstoppable product of a deeply diseased culture. A culture which has become the perfect growth medium for psychopathy.

    "Loners" are no longer alone when in their online worlds. They can communicate without actual human contact. They can find reinforcement for their darkest and most twisted thoughts and fantasies. They can give the worst demons of their psyches an artificial, external life in cyberspace - free to express hatred and anger anonymously and without consequence. And on the Internet, madness can hide in plain sight.

    After all, who's going to notice or care about garden variety insanity in a world which routinely describes everyone as murderous: baby killers on one side, Earth-destroying Nazis on the other. The stakes are absolute, the "other" is the enemy, and words are just words...until they become actions.

    The social mechanisms which formerly prevented these massacres have crumbled. The bonds of family, friendship, and faith. A shared sense of community. Optimism about the future. Moral certainty and personal responsibility.

    Instead, we now live in a crowded world of communal loners, all staring at their phones instead of the world and people around them. Politicians and media figures preach an unsubtle and dangerously divisive message of absolutes: you are either on this side or that, either all good or all evil. There is no middle ground - only calls for action. Calls that the wrong people are hearing.

    We live in a culture in which too many feel they have no meaning or importance, but believe that one spectacular act of madness can give them the instant celebrity which defines success in a sick society. And so they kill to feel alive. To experience an illusion of power at the expense of the powerless. And even knowing the likelihood that they will be killed during their heinous act, they believe they will live eternally in the electronic ether, washed in the blood of the sacrificed.

    Gun control can not and will not change any of this. The phenomena of mass shootings is, in fact, unstoppable absent a wholesale change in our culture, our way of life, and our society's unhealthy obsession with an inhuman and inhumane electronic world.

    The good news is that the vast majority of people still retain values strong enough to keep them morally centered in our crumbling culture. The bad news is that unless those values can regain cultural dominance, and unless we can replace combativeness and angry confrontation with honest conversation, mass murder will continue to be our inescapable new normal.
    .
    .
    Monte

    "I'll huff and I'll puff ...woah! Nice shotgun. Umm. Look at the time! Should have been home hours ago! Wife will be frantic. Nice meeting you. Bye, bye now!"

  6. #5
    Member Array M1911A1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Northwest Washington State
    Posts
    130
    Raven, montejames: Both of the essays you've presented are essential reading, or, as the cliché would have it, "food for thought."

    However, understanding the "why" is not quite as important as understanding what a protective, morals-driven individual has to do about it.

    For the "why," it's too late. These murderous cowards can't be stopped by learning and understanding their various motivations. They are already set upon their deadly paths, so that knowing what drives them won't help stop them.

    What we, as a society, can do about it involves swift and sure response, and, maybe later, equally swift and sure justice and appropriate punishment...if the murderous fool survives, that is.
    If the other murderous crazies see that our response is to swiftly meet force with force, it's a good bet that that demonstration will short-circuit many of their future plans.

    BTW: I move that we make a concerted effort to change the associated rhetoric from "gun violence" to "nut-case violence." Changing "assault weapon" to "modern sporting rifle" seems to be doing some good, so let's move even further forward.
    Steve
    Retired Leathersmith and Practical Shooter

    "Qui desiderat pacem, præparet bellum."

  7. #6
    Member Array ddrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by M1911A1 View Post
    Raven, montejames: Both of the essays you've presented are essential reading, or, as the cliché would have it, "food for thought."

    However, understanding the "why" is not quite as important as understanding what a protective, morals-driven individual has to do about it.

    For the "why," it's too late. These murderous cowards can't be stopped by learning and understanding their various motivations. They are already set upon their deadly paths, so that knowing what drives them won't help stop them.

    What we, as a society, can do about it involves swift and sure response, and, maybe later, equally swift and sure justice and appropriate punishment...if the murderous fool survives, that is.
    If the other murderous crazies see that our response is to swiftly meet force with force, it's a good bet that that demonstration will short-circuit many of their future plans.

    BTW: I move that we make a concerted effort to change the associated rhetoric from "gun violence" to "nut-case violence." Changing "assault weapon" to "modern sporting rifle" seems to be doing some good, so let's move even further forward.
    I say the "why" is incredibly important, and the key to stopping these kinds of things from happening in the future.
    You are basically saying we don't need to be proactive, but reactive instead, which is a never ending cycle of violence until we can figure out and eliminate the why.

    Reactive is important for the people who are already past the help of the why, but the why (proactive) is important for reeling in the people who aren't to far gone to help already, as well as preventing people from ever heading down that road in the first place.

    We need both, reactive for the here and now, and proactive for the hope for a better future for our kids.
    Last edited by ddrew; August 10th, 2019 at 08:57 AM. Reason: forgot a word
    Chaplain Scott likes this.

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    6,407
    ddrew, I would agree that we need to work on stopping these events before they occur. But if you read Meeks post carefully, especially the last word, he talks about preparing. Preparation is a pro-active measure.

    Preparation
    1 : the action or process of making something ready for use or service or of getting ready for some occasion, test, or duty
    ddrew, Chaplain Scott and DZUS like this.
    If something is important enough, you will find a way. If it's not, you will find an excuse.
    Every man dies, but not every man truly lives.
    If you are asked to be the hero, be the hero.

  9. #8
    Member Array ddrew's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    61
    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    ddrew, I would agree that we need to work on stopping these events before they occur. But if you read Meeks post carefully, especially the last word, he talks about preparing. Preparation is a pro-active measure.

    Preparation
    1 : the action or process of making something ready for use or service or of getting ready for some occasion, test, or duty
    You did read the part where I said we need to be ready for the nuts that are already fully cooked while we work on the why right?
    Absolutely be prepared

    If there's a hole in the dam we need to get ready for flooding, but at the same time we should be working on repairing it
    G26Raven likes this.

  10. #9
    Distinguished Member Array Novarider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    East TN
    Posts
    1,371
    My wifes best friend has a carry permit but never carries. She uses several excuses. First it was "I don't have a belt" so that day I got her a gun belt. The next excuse was "I don't have a good holster" so I bought her a good holster. She still doesn't carry. I'm not buying her anything else. It's just going to sit and gather dust.

    In the past 5 years I've seen her carry exactly 2 times.

    Her husband on the other hand carries all day every day, as do I and my wife as well.

  11. #10
    VIP Member
    Array CG11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    NorthWestern Arizona
    Posts
    5,247
    Thank you, G26Raven, for an eye opening and thoughtful post. It is very easy to fall into the "I'm safe here" mentality. I have seen it in myself since moving to Arizona, but recognize that it is a false security - "it" can happen anywhere. There still has not been a day that I did not get up, dress and arm myself, and go about my day. There probably never will. Still, I would be lying if I did not admit to allowing my situational awareness to slip a bit. Thanks for the poke in my reality, my friend.
    G26Raven and Chaplain Scott like this.
    Be careful of people who brag about who they are - a lion will never have to tell you who he's a lion.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,059
    Quote Originally Posted by Novarider View Post
    My wifes best friend has a carry permit but never carries. She uses several excuses. First it was "I don't have a belt" so that day I got her a gun belt. The next excuse was "I don't have a good holster" so I bought her a good holster. She still doesn't carry. I'm not buying her anything else. It's just going to sit and gather dust.

    In the past 5 years I've seen her carry exactly 2 times.

    Her husband on the other hand carries all day every day, as do I and my wife as well.
    If I could even get my wife that far it would be an accomplishment.
    We get the government we deserve.

  13. #12
    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    6,407
    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    If I could even get my wife that far it would be an accomplishment.
    My wife is not that bad, but I absolutely cannot get her to carry to church on Sundays. She carries almost everywhere else, 90% of the time, but she has some weird mental block in that department.
    Havok likes this.
    If something is important enough, you will find a way. If it's not, you will find an excuse.
    Every man dies, but not every man truly lives.
    If you are asked to be the hero, be the hero.

  14. #13
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    US
    Posts
    6,059
    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    My wife is not that bad, but I absolutely cannot get her to carry to church on Sundays. She carries almost everywhere else, 90% of the time, but she has some weird mental block in that department.
    My wife won’t carry a gun, and went to the range like twice with me. She doesn’t enjoy shooting, so she doesn’t want to go back, but she thinks she knows enough to be able to use a gun to defend herself. One night when I was not home, our alarm went off in the middle of the night. The alert on my phone tells me which sensor was triggered. Apparently what happened was she heard a noise in the garage, and forgot about the alarm and opened the door into the garage to see what it was so the alarm went off. The noise turned out to be my air compressor, but I asked her what she would have done if there were a person in the garage, and she didn’t really have much of a plan.
    We get the government we deserve.

  15. #14
    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    6,407
    Havok, it's tough to argue with a spouse. It wasn't until we moved to Utah, where almost all the women she knows carry, that she finally started carrying regularly. When we lived in California, even though she had a permit in So California, which is rare, she virtually never carried. It's better here, but church carry and on-body carry are pretty much off the table. I'll take what I can get.
    Havok and forester58 like this.
    If something is important enough, you will find a way. If it's not, you will find an excuse.
    Every man dies, but not every man truly lives.
    If you are asked to be the hero, be the hero.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    2,649
    A little known fact regarding the tragic Charleston church shooting a few years back.....one of the pastors had his CCP, and often carried, but for some unknown reason, THAT night, he did not have it with him.

    Regarding being prepared, everytime we go to the range, I give my wife a different photo-realistic target, so she is shooting at the actual picture of a guy with a gun, in various scenarios, to overcome that natural hesitation.
    Bikenut, TSKnight, Havok and 1 others like this.
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •