The One Measure That WILL Reduce Mass Shootings

The One Measure That WILL Reduce Mass Shootings

This is a discussion on The One Measure That WILL Reduce Mass Shootings within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Simply stated, eliminate gun free zones. They do absolutely nothing to prevent crime (other than making criminals out of otherwise-law-abiding carriers) and everything to assure ...

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Thread: The One Measure That WILL Reduce Mass Shootings

  1. #1
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    The One Measure That WILL Reduce Mass Shootings

    Simply stated, eliminate gun free zones. They do absolutely nothing to prevent crime (other than making criminals out of otherwise-law-abiding carriers) and everything to assure would-be shooters that they will have a pool of available, defenseless victims. They also discourage those law-abiding citizens who might otherwise do so from carrying all day, every day. Having to disarm and secure a firearm in order to go to work or run an errand makes carrying more trouble than many are willing to go to.

    We had the promise of elimination of GFZs from the current president during his campaign. Since his election, not one word from him or his administration in support of the concept. Shootings that might otherwise have been avoided have continued, apparently unabated. Nothing audible from the "pro-2A" side since then, either. We have gone from the offensive on gun rights to hoping and struggling to hold on to what we have.

    Gun free zones make no one safer, yet here they remain, as strong as ever.
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    I'm doing my part by posting in gun forums and, more importantly, contacting my reps at both the state and federal level. I don't know if it makes much difference since I live in a red state. I don't know if the POTUS can do an EO to at least temporarily negate the GFZ's but it would be better to get Congress to repeal the law. And then there are the individual state laws. It's the blue and purple states that need a lot of work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NECCdude View Post
    I'm doing my part by posting in gun forums and, more importantly, contacting my reps at both the state and federal level. I don't know if it makes much difference since I live in a red state. I don't know if the POTUS can do an EO to at least temporarily negate the GFZ's but it would be better to get Congress to repeal the law. And then there are the individual state laws. It's the blue and purple states that need a lot of work.
    I live in a bright red state, where GFZs still have the force of law. Like I said in my OP, there is absolutely no legislative imperative to eliminate GFZs at any level, local, state or national.
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    Senior Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    I have another way to help stop these mass shootings.
    I would say that a lot of these losers are looking for fame and notoriety.
    Stop giving them what they crave.
    Report the news of the event but keep the shooters identity out of it.
    Won’t stop all the crazy people but I would be interested to know how many of them would do it if they knew that they would not receive the fame many of them crave.
    Just a thought that doesn’t effect anyone’s constitional or civil rights

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    Unfortunately GFZs are the darling of the gun control crowd at this time. They can't get our guns, at least not easily or right away, but with GFZs they can stop us from having them in those places. I agree with you, Mike1956, the GFZ is an open invitation, an advertisement that says "victims here". I also believe that Kilted Cowboy's view is part of the solution - these nut jobs are willing to trade their life for fame. Take away the fame and you take away the incentive. Then there is the idea of making people, not objects, responsible for their actions. It may be a lost cause for the liberal mindset, but this is the third leg of the stool for me. We didn't get in this mess with just one goofy idea, and it will take multiple actions to reverse things. Lenient judges, a media obsessed with cheap headlines, politicians willing to do anything to get or stay in power - more fuel for the fire that is burning our nation. Guess I will stop there before I get too wound up and find myself in trouble.
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    Distinguished Member Array NECCdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    I have another way to help stop these mass shootings.
    I would say that a lot of these losers are looking for fame and notoriety.
    Stop giving them what they crave.
    Report the news of the event but keep the shooters identity out of it.
    Won’t stop all the crazy people but I would be interested to know how many of them would do it if they knew that they would not receive the fame many of them crave.
    Just a thought that doesn’t effect anyone’s constitutional or civil rights
    That ain't gonna happen because mass death toll is a major ratings bump. No one seems to care about all the people killed in auto accidents but one plane out of thousands goes down or a rare mass shooting happens and it's in the news for a week or more because it apparently is of major public interest. Too bad the media doesn't take the time to compare statistics (unless it justifies their agenda).
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    Senior Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
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    I think you could eliminate GFZs if you eliminated all landowner/business liability pertaining to shootings. Short of that, it ain't happening and even then it would be a fight. No doubt things will be more interesting at the bar.
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    Its interesting that where I live we just attended a Bluegrass/BBQ competition event here at the fairgrounds where I concealed carried and several were open carriers. Only thing not allowed was pets and smoking. The only event that I have seen here not attended well was a big name country singer who advertised no knives or firearms. The crowd was "pitiful" by all accounts and this was a big reason why as the concert was free to attend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    I think you could eliminate GFZs if you eliminated all landowner/business liability pertaining to shootings. Short of that, it ain't happening and even then it would be a fight. No doubt things will be more interesting at the bar.
    Are there cases in which property owners have been found to be liable because they failed to post GFZ signs?
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    Senior Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Are there cases in which property owners have been found to be liable because they failed to post GFZ signs?
    I don't know, but plenty of employers cite insurance liability issues concerning allowing employees to carry. Probably the #1 place people go where they are not allowed to carry is work and they are there on a regular basis, right?

    However, look at what is going/went on with MGM. They are potentially out $800 million because their guest used MGM as a shooting location there in Las Vegas. Apparently, Mandalay Bay allows guns and did not provide enough security.
    https://www.apnews.com/81d7015c27b84e26a5c89939e8d3dbb4

    This lady is suing Kroger because the allow guns and her father was murdered at Kroger. Now, the murder would not have been stopped had Kroger had a different policy, but they are being sued because they allow guns. Go figure.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/video/woman-...athers-murder/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    I don't know, but plenty of employers cite insurance liability issues concerning allowing employees to carry. Probably the #1 place people go where they are not allowed to carry is work and they are there on a regular basis, right?

    However, look at what is going/went on with MGM. They are potentially out $800 million because their guest used MGM as a shooting location there in Las Vegas. Apparently, Mandalay Bay allows guns and did not provide enough security.
    https://www.apnews.com/81d7015c27b84e26a5c89939e8d3dbb4

    This lady is suing Kroger because the allow guns and her father was murdered at Kroger. Now, the murder would not have been stopped had Kroger had a different policy, but they are being sued because they allow guns. Go figure.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/video/woman-...athers-murder/
    I'll take all that to be a no to the question I asked.

    Lame excuses and bogus lawsuits in and of themselves are proof of nothing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    I don't know, but plenty of employers cite insurance liability issues concerning allowing employees to carry. Probably the #1 place people go where they are not allowed to carry is work and they are there on a regular basis, right?

    However, look at what is going/went on with MGM. They are potentially out $800 million because their guest used MGM as a shooting location there in Las Vegas. Apparently, Mandalay Bay allows guns and did not provide enough security.
    https://www.apnews.com/81d7015c27b84e26a5c89939e8d3dbb4

    This lady is suing Kroger because the allow guns and her father was murdered at Kroger. Now, the murder would not have been stopped had Kroger had a different policy, but they are being sued because they allow guns. Go figure.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/video/woman-...athers-murder/
    NO ONE can provide enough security, people have gotten to POTUS' in the past. If the s/s can't provide "enough security" for POTUS, there's unlikely to be any business capable of providing "enough".
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    NO ONE can provide enough security, people have gotten to POTUS' in the past. If the s/s can't provide "enough security" for POTUS, there's unlikely to be any business capable of providing "enough".
    GFZ signage hasn't proven to be enough in a single case that I've heard about. Most places I've seen them posted provide absolutely nothing else to ensure the safety of patrons.
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    Senior Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I'll take all that to be a no to the question I asked.

    Lame excuses and bogus lawsuits in and of themselves are proof of nothing.
    Bogocity aside, it is still costing MGM a huge amount of money to deal with the issue, and those lame excuses are a HUGE hurdle to overcome. Regardless of how we think of them, they are tied to money.

    There doesn't have to be proof of anything and I wasn't attempting to prove anything. You have come up with a solution, oft repeated from the past, that has no chance in hell of ever becoming a reality because it will be fought tooth and nail by landowners and business owners, largely over the issue of liability. It will also be fought by civil rights groups.

    But if the significant issue here is proof, what proof do you offer that eliminating GFZs will reduce mass shootings? It is non-provable without implementation, nothing but wishful speculation...that I happen to agree with, BTW, but wishful speculation none-the-less.

    While you have a simple proposed solution, it has huge and complex hurdles to overcome to make it a reality. How do you convince people it will work if you don't have proof? For a lot of the population, what you propose seems very counter-intuitive. It doesn't matter if you believe they are idiots for thinking that, you still need their votes to get laws to change. The trick is going to be figuring out how to convince people that your plan is viable.

    I will ask you this, has there ever been a lawsuit, particularly a successful lawsuit, over a shooting where there was a GFZ by a gun carrier who could not carry because the gun carrier was in a GFZ where a shooting occurred? I don't believe so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    GFZ signage hasn't proven to be enough in a single case that I've heard about. Most places I've seen them posted provide absolutely nothing else to ensure the safety of patrons.
    No matter what safety measures were applied, someone can easily circumvent them, create a problem and the company will still have not provided enough security. In reality, there's never adequate or enough security to guarantee anyone's safety anywhere at any time.
    The mind is the limiting factor

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