Armed Security at Churches Is Becoming a New Normal - Page 5

Armed Security at Churches Is Becoming a New Normal

This is a discussion on Armed Security at Churches Is Becoming a New Normal within the Home (And Away From Home) Defense Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Mike1956 I don't know how we moved from the greatest generation to today in a span of seventy years. Hippies......

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 91
Like Tree223Likes

Thread: Armed Security at Churches Is Becoming a New Normal

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Florida Twilight Zone
    Posts
    31,667
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I don't know how we moved from the greatest generation to today in a span of seventy years.
    Hippies...
    OldChap, TimBob, Mike1956 and 2 others like this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  2. #62
    Member Array TimBob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    US
    Posts
    90
    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Hippies...
    Yep. However, I must confess, I still like their music.

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

  3. #63
    New Member Array LonRanger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    2
    I always carry at church. We also have an police officer in uniform, but remember just like the rest of he can't be everywhere at once. It is the new normal, but not by choice. You might want to join the crowd. Remember no one can protect you like you, and I love me.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    DefensiveCarry.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #64
    VIP Member
    Array Mike1956's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Marion county, Ohio
    Posts
    32,685
    Quote Originally Posted by LonRanger View Post
    I always carry at church. We also have an police officer in uniform, but remember just like the rest of he can't be everywhere at once. It is the new normal, but not by choice. You might want to join the crowd. Remember no one can protect you like you, and I love me.
    Hopefully, you have church board authorization to carry there. Don't tell us if you don't, as it would be a violation of forum rules.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

    "Slaves, enjoy your freedom." Chuck Klosterman

  6. #65
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,533
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Ignorance here would be bliss, as well, were it not for the fact that it's a felony to carry into a house of worship in Ohio without governing board authorization.
    I was speaking about Catholic Churches here in Texas. I doubt they are posted. Some churches restrict open carry here, but not concealed carry. Even those that restrict open carry seem to be few and far between. It is a well known secret that a casual reading of the Texas Penal Code would seem to forbid carry of any kind in churches by LTC holders. But two paragraphs below that old section are the newer additions the Legislature added which force churches to post the appropriate legal signage. If they don't, anyone with an LTC may carry.
    Mike1956 likes this.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

  7. #66
    Member Array Cypher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    332
    I may have already said this in this thread but to paraphrase Tamara Keel it's not so much that I specifically carry a gun to go to church as it is that I make it my habit not to leave my house unarmed and church just happens to be one of the places I go to.

  8. #67
    VIP Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    2,698
    This is a timely thread........another church shooting.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/u...-shooting.html
    Scott, US Army 1974-2004

    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
    - Ronald Reagan

  9. #68
    Member
    Array SAXDM9's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    487
    Tree of Life Synagogue in a very urban residential neighborhood is 6 blocks from our sonís house. Great neighborhood, wonderful diversity. Where will we feel safe? Iím comforted when an org will admit the potential threat and allow us to organize comprehensive passive and active measures to harden a site, especially during active periods.

    Iím relieved, not troubled, when a congregation accepts the responsibility for its safety rather than hiding behind false denial of a potential threat. Weíve never had a fire in my in-laws church but we have evacuation maps, refuge areas, fire and smoke detection, fire alarms, and central monitoring. Weíve never had a shooting. We have open entrances at main, classroom wing, kitchen, and side. We have no cameras, no watchers, no armed presence. Is Fire our more likely event today?

    Good on the leadership who take on the mantle of protector for those seeking a peaceful and worshipful place. Iím all in.
    TimBob and Chaplain Scott like this.
    ______________________________________________

    Member IDPA & GSSF
    Preserve Our Rights

  10. #69
    New Member Array majikg6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    7
    My church has 7 "safety team" personnel, which I am a part of. We keep two outside the sanctuary, two in the seats and one in the balcony. We are all in casual clothes to blend with the congregation. The church is designed for people who don't like church so we always have new people coming and going often. Weekend attendance is roughly 1,400 people. We also have a homeless ministry and unfortunately a good amount of our issues come from there. Keeps you on your toes to say the least.
    Chaplain Scott likes this.

  11. #70
    Member Array montejames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    154
    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    well considering the that most common number being repeated on the internet is 3 incidents at a church in 2017 and none in 2018, I would say that although it is one place that can be a location for serious crime.. its incredibly uncommon. I simply call it like I see it and in my humble estimation, Churches are not a likely location of danger and villainy. I agree with the idea that robust security measures are generally a good thing but I also accept that most violent crime is motivated by some form of personal animus, hostile ideology and mental defect... not a security assessment.
    You might want to look at the stats. They show it to be a problem.

    First thing I found with a quick search was this link to the 2008 & 2009 numbers from the the National Incident-Based Reporting System files and Uniform Crime Reports (UCRs) from the FBI.

    Church Crime Statistics - New data release by FBI

    Also "Sheepdog Church Security" on Facebook posts frequent "Church Crime Updates" It's something any church leader who needs a reality check should read. (Church security team members might want to follow them if using Facebook.)
    .
    .
    Monte

    "I'll huff and I'll puff ...woah! Nice shotgun. Umm. Look at the time! Should have been home hours ago! Wife will be frantic. Nice meeting you. Bye, bye now!"

  12. #71
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,360

    Ready for the unthinkable

    I have had mixed feelings on this subject for 28 years, since I accepted Jesus as my savior. However, in today's world, if your church does not provide Armed Security, I feel that it is better to be ready for the unthinkable than to be a victim.

    Other officer's I use to work with are now carrying their service issued pistol or other full size pistol to church instead of a pocket pistol, and although I am now retired, I am also carrying a service pistol.

  13. #72
    VIP Member Array 5lima30ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Gulf Coast of Alabama
    Posts
    5,388
    In LA (Lower AL) CCW in church is very common. To not carry or to have a policy against carrying, IS NOT the norm here! A more likely debate among parishioners here would be what caliber is appropriate or magazine capacity for church!
    Retired Police Lieutenant, Former UH-1N Huey & MH-53 Pave Low Gunner, Retired USAF Reserve, Glock Armorer, AL Retired LEO CPP, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor, LEOSA Qualified, Active FOP Executive Board Member

    "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" Phil 4:13

  14. #73
    VIP Member Array Fizban's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Southern State USA
    Posts
    3,944
    Quote Originally Posted by montejames View Post
    You might want to look at the stats. They show it to be a problem.

    First thing I found with a quick search was this link to the 2008 & 2009 numbers from the the National Incident-Based Reporting System files and Uniform Crime Reports (UCRs) from the FBI.

    Church Crime Statistics - New data release by FBI

    Also "Sheepdog Church Security" on Facebook posts frequent "Church Crime Updates" It's something any church leader who needs a reality check should read. (Church security team members might want to follow them if using Facebook.)
    I am very familiar with how crime stats are correlated. These stats could mean exactly what they seem to suggest and they also could mean that the crime is associated with a "block location" which is shared by a church. It could mean that the church was across the street or the most prominent feature of a multiplex, strip mall or similar venue. It could also mean that "key words" may have attributed to the [church location] as when the crime was reported from a church, by someone associated or working at a church or when a church was the designated location to meet with a subject. It could mean that any mention of a "church" in a report narrative could have flagged the incident for stat purposes. I make no speculation about these stats since I know nothing of how they were constructed, by what means or by whom. I am no expert but I stand by my earlier suggestion that most any other public place is going to be the more likely location of serious crime vs the premises of a church. It doesn't mean crime does not happen at worship centers or that they wont. It doesn't mean that worship centers do not need or cannot benefit from competent security, I certainly think they can benefit from it. It just means that I personally think that there is a tendency to interject a level of drama which is probably misplaced.

    If someone wants to use these stats.. lets compare them to a [gas station] as the incident location and see what those stats look like by comparison. A 10 second inquiry into the internet yielded stats indicating 17,400 robberies at a gas station/convenience store in one year which does not include a multitude of other crimes. If those numbers are even half right, I think the corner gas station/convenience store is likely more dangerous than a place of worship.
    Think like a man of action - Act like a man of thought

  15. #74
    OD*
    OD* is online now
    Senior Moderator
    Array OD*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Staff lounge
    Posts
    20,826
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I ask this out of ignorance, to anyone who might know. Have Catholic institutions in general disallowed armed staff/congregants here in the US?
    In my limited experience, too many have.
    Mike1956 likes this.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
    End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."




    NRA Patron Member

  16. #75
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Florida Twilight Zone
    Posts
    31,667
    Quote Originally Posted by majikg6 View Post
    My church has 7 "safety team" personnel, which I am a part of. We keep two outside the sanctuary, two in the seats and one in the balcony. We are all in casual clothes to blend with the congregation.
    No, no one would ever suspect...

    Name:  download (1).jpg
Views: 21
Size:  6.4 KB
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •