Man Killed By NJ Police Raising His Hands Up (Video) - Page 2

Man Killed By NJ Police Raising His Hands Up (Video)

This is a discussion on Man Killed By NJ Police Raising His Hands Up (Video) within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by nmbr5ml Yes. Just like anyone else, they must wait until it "may be" too late. Deadly force is appropriate for a legitimate ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array DocT65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmbr5ml View Post
    Yes. Just like anyone else, they must wait until it "may be" too late. Deadly force is appropriate for a legitimate threat, not the perception of a potential threat. Otherwise, where do you draw the line?

    Do you carry a gun? How would you like it if you were stopped by the police and the officer, having been advised of your lawfully armed status via his mobile computer, just stepped up to your car and assassinated you? After all, you carry a gun. You're in a bad neighborhood after hours. There's a pretty good chance you've been caught in a compromising position and will try to fight. Why wait for you to do that when he can just terminate you where you sit?

    I tried to be objective and sort out in my mind how I would even begin to justify that shooting and I can't do it. The perception I took from it is the shooting victim could see the writing on the wall. They'd already taken a gun off him, the cop was freaking out and accusing him of reaching. He was going to get out and place himself in a posture of submission, in plain view, where no justification could exist for filling him full of holes. At what point the officer determined that his raised hands contained a weapon or posed a deadly threat, I don't know but it doesn't really matter. It isn't reasonable. Yell at him, shove him, spray him or whatever but KILLING him for passive disobedience seems to cross the line.
    Here's another perspective for you to consider:

    -You were not there.
    -You are looking at a dashcam video, in the dark, one point of visualization--from behind the situation. Hardly enough to display all that is transpiring.
    -You do not have all of the facts of the case and therefore are not in a position to judge right or wrong on anyone's part. That's why God made courts, judges and juries.
    -These officers had literally seconds to make life-or death decisions based on the moment.

    Unless you are some omnipotent diety, no one needs to be trashing these LEO's until all the facts are known......and not the "facts" from media hype and jarheads like Sharpton that is sure to come.
    Last edited by DocT65; January 22nd, 2015 at 04:53 PM.
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  2. #17
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    Not to mention that we don't know for a fact that the subject was disarmed. The cop took A gun from the glove box, but had no opportunity to pat him down to check for other weapons. Distraction is a common ruse.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Not to mention that we don't know for a fact that the subject was disarmed. The cop took A gun from the glove box, but had no opportunity to pat him down to check for other weapons. Distraction is a common ruse.
    Bingo, make furtive movement and not obey an officers commands leads to all manner of problems like it did here for both sides.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocT65 View Post
    .....and not the "facts" from media hype and jarheads like Sharpton that is sure to come.
    Ok, why are you insulting the Marines?

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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Bingo, make furtive movement and not obey an officers commands leads to all manner of problems like it did here for both sides.
    What I'd like to know is, where this idiotic belief that the bad guys get to shoot first came from?

    "Hans Solo shot first...."
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  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array nlyric's Avatar
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    Very precarious situation those officers are in. Guess we will see how this unfolds. According to the article the driver announced he was going to get out and get on the ground. Smart move. I had trouble streaming the video on my phone but I did not see a gun. I did see a highly charge officer who said "I'm going to kill you" Whether officer Days was on high alert due to finding a weapon or fear of the mans past history, or both remains to be seen. His words suggest he was ready to take a life. LEOs are held to a higher standard than we are, I have witness this first hand and at the time it didn't seem right. Down right dangerous for both the officer and the public. I have also witnessed abuse of power by a few LEOs ... So
    Just airing my thoughts and will reserve judgement for now.
    I do have to say though, how is it possible that guy had a gun in NJ?
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  8. #22
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    Quote: "I do have to say though, how is it possible that guy had a gun in NJ?"

    The cop could have possibly done him a favor rather than face the judge in the NJ court system for an illegal firearm and ammo......he'd wish he was dead. IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Well, if the suspect was a known quantity, was recognized for what he'd previously done, and was personally witnessed with the practical means of accomplishing a similar murder ... I'd say the protestors have little to grouse about. Pigmentation had zero to do with it; known history of a known felon in close proximity to a loaded sidearm did.
    I tend to agree...I don't think there is any requirement to "wait until it may be too late" (That's actually every stop, in practice though). The question is would a reasonable person fear for their life? If you know a person to have shot 3 other officers, have known them to be aggressive. Can possibly see aggression on their face. Their not following commands and advancing towards you...fear for life? I buy it.

    PS - hands up is relative...his were not really "up" they were in a feigned surrender position but actually primed for aggression. Anyone who trains to disarm a weapon from someone starts in that position, and he was plenty close to take that cops gun.
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    I really couldn't tell from the video exactly what was happening. I wasn't there so I want make assumptions about it. I will say I'm worried that we'll have another round of protests and so on just because it's not clearly visible. I hope it's not like the Missouri issues but it could get bad.
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    More protests?

    Oh well I have to say that they are more entertaining to watch than stuff like Dancing with the Stars or American Idol!!

    Since this happened in NJ I am assuming Chris Christy will end up being the straight man in the inevitable Al Sharpton stand up comedy routine.
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    "Hands up, don't shoot" only works in civil protests, not during the commission of an aggravated felony.
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    If a police officer is right, wrong or just plain acting crazy why is it so hard just to do what they say. Maybe you get treated bad because you dealing with a bad officer. Police departments have bad people like anywhere. But even if your rite's are violated your alive. The lawyers can handle the rest and the cities, towns or commu I ties don't have to go through all the crap. And there's no family suffering because of it.

    I GUESS I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND IT. But I'm a dumb ole country boy.
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Hodad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bama61 View Post
    If a police officer is right, wrong or just plain acting crazy why is it so hard just to do what they say. Maybe you get treated bad because you dealing with a bad officer. Police departments have bad people like anywhere. But even if your rite's are violated your alive. The lawyers can handle the rest and the cities, towns or commu I ties don't have to go through all the crap. And there's no family suffering because of it.

    I GUESS I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND IT. But I'm a dumb ole country boy.
    That's why there are a lot more of us dumb ol' country boys still around than slick urban gangstas!! LOL
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  15. #29
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    The video does not clearly show me what was happening in that car. The officer was "primed" for action when he recognized the passenger. Any furtive movements by the man might have caused the officer to react the way he did. The article did state the officer who fired first had numerous complaints lodged against him for abuse of power. All were dismissed. This could have been a pattern of behavior his superiors might have spotted before someone was killed. Again no judgement from me, I was not there. Hope the truth comes out. Hope the truth is what we hear.
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  16. #30
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    After playing the "action" part of the video over and over, its pretty clear that total chaos ensues after the officer to the right unloads on the passenger headed for the scared poop-less officers "hula-hoop" space. The officer probably don't even see the passengers arm half way up at all as he starts unloading. Looking at the officer to the left getting ready to almost hit the deck, I don't think he really has a clear sight picture at all on what he throws his one round at.

    Bad all around, for all parties.
    Last edited by gasmitty; January 22nd, 2015 at 06:49 PM. Reason: language workaround
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