Think the police will be able to protect you when evil arrives? - Page 3

Think the police will be able to protect you when evil arrives?

This is a discussion on Think the police will be able to protect you when evil arrives? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Starting off with the assumption that liberals think is a problem; they do not think, they emote, they dream, they wish, they hope. Modern American ...

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  1. #31
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    Starting off with the assumption that liberals think is a problem; they do not think, they emote, they dream, they wish, they hope.

    Modern American Liberalism (MAL) exists primarily to permit the self-perceived liberal to believe himself/herself superior (morally and intellectually) to the common man. The danger arises when that self-delusion drives the liberal to believe that it is his/her responsibility to control the lives of the lesser humans, for their own good of course. Then there are the politicians pandering to liberal groups in order to buy votes with promises.

    Quite simply, these folks are MAL-adjusted.

    As a retired cop I can tell you confidently that the chances of police arriving on the scene of any crime while still in progress or while the perpetrators are still present are very, very slim. Cops are good at gathering evidence, interviewing witnesses, chalk-lining bodies, and photographing the results of crimes. Cops are moderately successful in apprehending accused criminals and fugitives, nearly always well after the criminal act has been completed.

    As the saying goes, when seconds count the cops are only minutes away.

    Reality is not for those who wish to live in a dream world.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by retired badge 1 View Post
    Starting off with the assumption that liberals think is a problem; they do not think, they emote, they dream, they wish, they hope.

    Modern American Liberalism (MAL) exists primarily to permit the self-perceived liberal to believe himself/herself superior (morally and intellectually) to the common man. The danger arises when that self-delusion drives the liberal to believe that it is his/her responsibility to control the lives of the lesser humans, for their own good of course. Then there are the politicians pandering to liberal groups in order to buy votes with promises.

    Quite simply, these folks are MAL-adjusted.

    As a retired cop I can tell you confidently that the chances of police arriving on the scene of any crime while still in progress or while the perpetrators are still present are very, very slim. Cops are good at gathering evidence, interviewing witnesses, chalk-lining bodies, and photographing the results of crimes. Cops are moderately successful in apprehending accused criminals and fugitives, nearly always well after the criminal act has been completed.

    As the saying goes, when seconds count the cops are only minutes away.

    Reality is not for those who wish to live in a dream world.
    Yup. Their moral superiority trumps our experience, training, skill and knowledge every time. Who needs facts when they have ideals?
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

    "Slaves, enjoy your freedom." Chuck Klosterman

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    While I agree with all the posts here, I think we make assumptions about how liberals think about this stuff that aren't valid. The reason that hurts us is we get lulled into thinking we can keep the upper hand on them by our superior logic and facts. That's not how it works. As many conservative pundits, chief among them Ben Shapiro point out, liberals run on feelings and idealism, not facts and logic.

    When I was a team lead for this last VCDL Lobby Day, we had one ultra-liberal, anti-gun delegate on our list and he was our last office visit. It was an interesting conversation. He listened and engaged with us respectfully, I'll give him that. He listened to our facts and logic and did not disagree. His concern was this: "What do I tell the people in my district whose families who have lost loved ones to gun violence? Bad people ultimately get their guns from good people." I'm not saying I agree with him for second, I am just saying I follow how he came up with his ideas. Gun manufacturers, wholesalers, FFLs and their legitimate customers are all good people. But bad people still wind up with guns. The only constant variable to him was the guns themselves.

    Also a liberal doesn't necessarily think the cops can save him. But he does not see "the evil" as an aberration as we do. He views all gun owners as part of "the evil." He believes mass shooters are people from our ranks who "snap." Or at the very least, it will be one of us who will be the source of the guns next mass shooter will use. He thinks the way to stop violence is to save people from themselves by getting rid of the tools.

    This kind of thought process is good to keep that in mind when dealing with anti-gunners.
    I have no problem with thought processes and understanding the opposition, but I have to ask. Did anything anyone said to this guy change his mind?

    I supervised quite a number of people who were enrolled in our Citizen's Police Academy doing their ride-alongs. They had to do three ride-alongs on Friday or Saturday night to graduate. Prior to this experience, quite a few expressed the notion that "police are here to protect us" and the ever popular "nobody needs guns" concept - all said in classroom settings. You would be absolutely astounded at how complete the transformation was after 8 hours of exposure to the real world without the rose-colored glasses. Nobody ever had to speak a word to them.

    @retired badge 1 Could I give 1,000 likes, I would. The biggest destroyer of careers for cops, aside from failed marriages, is the loss of expectation that one can make a difference in the community by stopping crime before it happens. I often think back to one veteran Sgt. who, during a lecture to cadets in the Academy, always dragged out a big push broom and large dust pan. "Think of these as your right and left hand in working the streets."
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

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  5. #34
    Senior Member Array pskys2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    I had a conversation with a guy I know about the college bribery scandal. This guy is well educated, however he is extremely liberal and also a college teacher unfortunately. When we were discussing this, he was trying to figure out something like that could happen and the government not know about it. The rest of us were laughing at how stupid they were because they got caught. He kept going on about how the government keeps track of large transactions and how thisnand that have to be reported and blah blah blah. Anyway, the point is, some people turn to the government for everything. Whether it’s their safety, money, or whatever. Those types of people are always surprised when the words they put on paper become total failures when applied to real life situations. He tried to tell me that government is aware of all transactions over $10k. I tried to explain that there are millions of $10k+ transactions made every day, so someone paying money for their kid to get into college was on nobody’s radar.

    To relate that back to mass shootings, every relatively healthy person who wakes up each day has the potential to be a mass murderer. To think that everyone can be monitored, or that police can be everywhere to prevent anything is absurd. But that concept is lost with these people. They saw a piece of paper that says police are protecting schools, so in their minds, nobody can harm someone at a school. Their minds do not function.
    Uhhh, cash is king in bribes. Laundering it so it keeps under the radar is a business model for many.
    Money is like water, it will find a way in.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    While I agree with all the posts here, I think we make assumptions about how liberals think about this stuff that aren't valid. The reason that hurts us is we get lulled into thinking we can keep the upper hand on them by our superior logic and facts. That's not how it works. As many conservative pundits, chief among them Ben Shapiro point out, liberals run on feelings and idealism, not facts and logic.

    When I was a team lead for this last VCDL Lobby Day, we had one ultra-liberal, anti-gun delegate on our list and he was our last office visit. It was an interesting conversation. He listened and engaged with us respectfully, I'll give him that. He listened to our facts and logic and did not disagree. His concern was this: "What do I tell the people in my district whose families who have lost loved ones to gun violence? Bad people ultimately get their guns from good people." I'm not saying I agree with him for second, I am just saying I follow how he came up with his ideas. Gun manufacturers, wholesalers, FFLs and their legitimate customers are all good people. But bad people still wind up with guns. The only constant variable to him was the guns themselves.

    Also a liberal doesn't necessarily think the cops can save him. But he does not see "the evil" as an aberration as we do. He views all gun owners as part of "the evil." He believes mass shooters are people from our ranks who "snap." Or at the very least, it will be one of us who will be the source of the guns next mass shooter will use. He thinks the way to stop violence is to save people from themselves by getting rid of the tools.

    This kind of thought process is good to keep that in mind when dealing with anti-gunners.
    The highlighted part is spot on. "...save people from themselves..." Unfortunately the road to hell is paved with good intentions. As Evil will always use those "good intentions" to manipulate and control the weak.
    G26Raven and airslot like this.

  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post
    Wrap your head around the modern progressive argument:

    1) Liberals are advocates for minorities. Conservatives are racist.
    2) Police are racist and shoot people because of the color of their skin.
    3) No one needs guns because the police will do that job.

    You mean the "racist police"? The ones who you claim shoot minorities? And you are "helping" minorities by disarming them?

    Btw, the same argument works for women's rights. The only way progressive logic works is if everyone is a victim.
    Yes and they accept that some good people will be victims of the authorities. Circular 1984 Orwellian logic.
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  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    When it comes to the anti-gun movement I always feel that they have a really convoluted sense of security. Preventing law abiding people from obtaining guns will likely mean fewer gun deaths. Suicides by gun and accidents would be decreased if there was no access to guns. The unfortunate consequence however would be that at the same time people would lose the deterrent factor that can and has held bad people at bay since the beginning of recorded history. Castle walls and moats were a deterrent. Large standing armies were a deterrent. Such things did not eliminate battles, but they discouraged them.

    The Unites States has been exercising a major deterrent policy since the end of WWII. It was and is nuclear bombs. An adversary thjnking of attacking the USA had to face that fact that it’s nation might become a radioactive gas cloud. The official policy of the US in dealing with Soviet and now Russia nuclear weapon capability is the military’s MAD doctrine – Mutually Assured Destruction. That deterrent doctrine has worked and will continue to work unless lunacy prevails in some government.

    I have read, but have no statistics to back this up, that in states where permitless carry in some form or another result in a reduction of violent crime, especially street crime. A criminal has to worry about getting shot is far less likely to select a victim randomly. Permitless carry is a deterrent against crime.

    So now back to the anti-gun advocates. Do they not see that the safety of our Country is provided for by the MAD policy deterrent? Do they not understand that bad people generally do not attack police stations because armed police are a deterrent? Have they never heard criminals say that their worst fear is selecting a victim that has a gun.

    The anti-gun advocates suffer from a logical disconnect that amount to delusion. Believing that restricting or eliminating self defense deterrents is the path to greater safety is simply delusional. It is just as delusional as believeing that the police will more often than not get to the scene of violence in time to stop it before harm is done.

    Yes, preventing gun ownership will reduce gun deaths and injury among the suicidal, mentally ill, and careless. But it will not stop the criminals from obtaining guns and using guns. The police who most often cannot save a victims from harm also cannot stop the illegal traffic in guns. It is delusional to think banning guns will reverse those two facts.
    I wouldn't agree with reducing suicide, those who wish to do so can always find a way.
    Stirling XD likes this.

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    I have no problem with thought processes and understanding the opposition, but I have to ask. Did anything anyone said to this guy change his mind?

    I supervised quite a number of people who were enrolled in our Citizen's Police Academy doing their ride-alongs. They had to do three ride-alongs on Friday or Saturday night to graduate. Prior to this experience, quite a few expressed the notion that "police are here to protect us" and the ever popular "nobody needs guns" concept - all said in classroom settings. You would be absolutely astounded at how complete the transformation was after 8 hours of exposure to the real world without the rose-colored glasses. Nobody ever had to speak a word to them.

    @retired badge 1 Could I give 1,000 likes, I would. The biggest destroyer of careers for cops, aside from failed marriages, is the loss of expectation that one can make a difference in the community by stopping crime before it happens. I often think back to one veteran Sgt. who, during a lecture to cadets in the Academy, always dragged out a big push broom and large dust pan. "Think of these as your right and left hand in working the streets."
    Maybe a program requiring all high school students to go on a Saturday Night ride along would be wise. Might well solve a lot of problems.
    OldChap likes this.

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array pskys2's Avatar
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    The sad part is the more civilized humanity becomes, the less self reliant.
    Evil is cruel, many times it has an engaging smile, it may even be popular but it is never stupid.
    Bikenut, seeker_two and Henry9008 like this.

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by pskys2 View Post
    Uhhh, cash is king in bribes. Laundering it so it keeps under the radar is a business model for many.
    Money is like water, it will find a way in.
    Yes, but my whole point here was that the people who turn to the government for everything are the most surprised at their constant failure to do what they expect that government to do, and they look to that same government to come up with solutions.
    G26Raven likes this.
    We get the government we deserve.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Yup. Their moral superiority trumps our experience, training, skill and knowledge every time. Who needs facts when they have ideals?
    I think I have related my experience with my (thankfully) EX-SON IN LAW liberal, morally superior idiot of the year. He went to college for three years or so and came away feeling like he knew everything. He would try to argue with everyone about everything. He was particularly adamant about his intellectual superiority which, he felt, had spilled over into his physical superiority because he had gotten a black belt in karate from a babysitting academy. He frequently boasted that he would have no trouble dispatching any threat easily.

    That particular claim came crashing down on his head one afternoon as he and my daughter were walking in the park. A thug confronted him and asked for his wallet. Ten minutes later, EMS dragged his bleeding carcass to the hospital where he spent a week recuperating. Not wishing to rub salt into his wounds, I commented that, "Gee that karate must have kept him from killing you!" He didn't think it funny.

    I told my daughter that, were she wise, she should just run the other way next time someone jumped him.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by pskys2 View Post
    I wouldn't agree with reducing suicide, those who wish to do so can always find a way.
    Japan has almost no guns, yet their suicide rate is astonishingly high.
    NRA lifetime member

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  14. #43
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    Drug overdose deaths far out pace gun deaths in the United States. Perhaps if we banned drug use...
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

    "Slaves, enjoy your freedom." Chuck Klosterman

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by pskys2 View Post
    I wouldn't agree with reducing suicide, those who wish to do so can always find a way.

    You are correct. I meant it would only reduce suicides by gun.
    OldChap likes this.
    "You don't hurt them if you don't hit them." Lt. Gen. Lewis "Chesty" Puller, USMC Retired

    USMC 9/59 through 9/69
    Vietnam June ‘66 to February ‘68
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  16. #45
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    Evil has been known to use wide body passenger planes, really big bombs, box trucks, passenger cars.....

    So any security put into place would be done on speculation, or what the perceived evil might be. Problem
    is there is no guessing what a vengeful/homocidal maniac will do. Even with a just a firearm a perp can
    do a lot of damage in a 'secured' area.

    We can only prepare ourselves as well as rational thought can allow, and the limitations therein.
    Unfortunately irrational actions are rarely predicted by rational thought.

    The real threat is the mind set behind the evil. That mind set does not think along conventional lines,
    yet people think conventional safe guards will stop it.



    Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk
    Henry9008 likes this.

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