A cluster on the streets in S.C.

A cluster on the streets in S.C.

This is a discussion on A cluster on the streets in S.C. within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Control the head, control the body. When are states academies going to start training leo's that very simple concept. Did you see the officer start ...

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    A cluster on the streets in S.C.

    Control the head, control the body. When are states academies going to start training leo's that very simple concept. Did you see the officer start to control the head and then quit real quick? Too much PC BS taking place putting leo's at unnecessary risk.

    Put him to sleep for christ sake, before he pulled some weapon from that pocket he was digging into and injured the officer who was never aware of the turd rummaging through his pants pocket.

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    The mind is the limiting factor

    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

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    That could have ended so badly on so many levels I don't even know where to begin. Thankfully the little girl appeared unhurt physically.
    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." Alexander Hamilton

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    The video is really educational in several ways. As AzQkr points out controlling the head is so important. It also shows just how much force it takes to get a grown man to the ground. I though the officer did a good job especially since the perp had a child in his arms.

    It would probably have been excessive force, but had I been so engaged in a capture, once I had the perp on the grind on his belly, I would have resorted to am immobilization technique I learned in the Corps.

    Straddle the man’s back with knees preferably on the ground. One forearm across the front of the neck and the other forearm across the back of the neck. Interlock hands to forearms and apply pressure to the neck. It start to cut off oxygen and blood flow to the brain. It takes about 15 seconds for a person to quit or feint. I can guarantee you it works. We had to practice that on each other. It was very effective.
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    VIP Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    Greg Ellifritz writes eloquently about how admin does not hire fighters or toughs, they hire unassuming LEO's that don't threaten the sheep. The issue is not everyone is a sheep, some can only be convinced with physical action.
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    And then of course there was the idiot filming everything (you can see his shadow) instead of at least assisting the police officer who was obviously in trouble. Grrrrrr.
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    So who is this Will that everybody fires at, what did he do, and how come he's not dead yet??

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    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    I agree...generally. Our problem, at least as I heard it in a few of the department force policy meetings I was "invited" to attend, is that there is a fine line between putting someone to sleep and more permanent consequences. A senior medical examiner was in attendance and he presented some slides about "occluding the carotid arteries" or some terminology nobody understood, and said some number of people die very quickly when enough pressure stops blood flow to the medulla oblongata. I gathered that this was one of those "unknowable" issues - at least as he stated it.

    The conclusion of senior command was not that the procedure worked, but was potentially lethal and there was simply no way to insure the hold only had the intended consequences. Training officers to never make a mistake and apply a lethal hold when not intended, was the reason we forbid it's use. The easier training solution was to simply teach officers never to do it.

    They initially had the same kind of issue with Tasers when first deployed. The manufacturers made some technical changes, and I haven't heard of many deaths from their use in the past few years.

    Evidently, the powers-that-be are not really terribly concerned about officer's safety. Sad.

    @CG11 That is from "Live PD". They have pretty much built an encampment in Richland County SC. Personally, that show has become a grass growing observation marathon. We have quit watching.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    I agree...generally. Our problem, at least as I heard it in a few of the department force policy meetings I was "invited" to attend, is that there is a fine line between putting someone to sleep and more permanent consequences. A senior medical examiner was in attendance and he presented some slides about "occluding the carotid arteries" or some terminology nobody understood, and said some number of people die very quickly when enough pressure stops blood flow to the medulla oblongata. I gathered that this was one of those "unknowable" issues - at least as he stated it.

    The conclusion of senior command was not that the procedure worked, but was potentially lethal and there was simply no way to insure the hold only had the intended consequences. Training officers to never make a mistake and apply a lethal hold when not intended, was the reason we forbid it's use. The easier training solution was to simply teach officers never to do it.

    They initially had the same kind of issue with Tasers when first deployed. The manufacturers made some technical changes, and I haven't heard of many deaths from their use in the past few years.

    Evidently, the powers-that-be are not really terribly concerned about officer's safety. Sad.

    @CG11 That is from "Live PD". They have pretty much built an encampment in Richland County SC. Personally, that show has become a grass growing observation marathon. We have quit watching.
    When it's potentially lethal for him or I [ or even a high probability of receiving gave bodily injuries while trying to be "polite" and "PC" ], it's him that will always get the nod to take the nap. If it happens to be a permanent nap, well, it was him or I, I'm the one left answering questions, not pushing up daisy's.

    There's a wealth of people out there that will kill you in a heartbeat and never give it another thought. Recognizing you're in a game of hardball and not softball [ fast pitch vx slow pitch ] is the first step to surviving.

    That officer could have been giving him throat messages with forearms while he was violently resisting, all inadvertent, of course. Who to hell can claim they know where their arms, hands are going to end up in a violent struggle.

    "quit your strugglin"
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    The mind is the limiting factor

    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

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    The carotid has went the way of the sap. Years ago when the pos pulled away he would have been introduced to a sap or a mag light. When he regained his senses the little future pos would have been secure, he would be in cuffs and the dope in his pocket would have went into an evidence bag. But we live in a kinder gentler world they tell me.

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    VIP Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osagemarine View Post
    The carotid has went the way of the sap. Years ago when the pos pulled away he would have been introduced to a sap or a mag light. When he regained his senses the little future pos would have been secure, he would be in cuffs and the dope in his pocket would have went into an evidence bag. But we live in a kinder gentler world they tell me.
    The good guys have to be kind, the thugs are free to do as they please.
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    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    When it's potentially lethal for him or I [ or even a high probability of receiving gave bodily injuries while trying to be "polite" and "PC" ], it's him that will always get the nod to take the nap. If it happens to be a permanent nap, well, it was him or I, I'm the one left answering questions, not pushing up daisy's.

    There's a wealth of people out there that will kill you in a heartbeat and never give it another thought. Recognizing you're in a game of hardball and not softball [ fast pitch vx slow pitch ] is the first step to surviving.

    That officer could have been giving him throat messages with forearms while he was violently resisting, all inadvertent, of course. Who to hell can claim they know where their arms, hands are going to end up in a violent struggle.

    "quit your strugglin"
    While I agree...if you do it that way today, you will land in a world of hurt. It isn't right, but it is reality in this world where right is wrong and wrong is right. My prediction is it will get worse.
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    Choke and/or sleeper holds have been prohibited by many agencies. Despite effectiveness or need, they can be a job ender.
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    If the officer used a sleeper-hold while being videoed, he would likely end up in prison. The politically correct rules favor the bad guys today.
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    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
    If the officer used a sleeper-hold while being videoed, he would likely end up in prison. The politically correct rules favor the bad guys today.
    Yup. It's not just a job ender, it's a freedom ender.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    While I agree...if you do it that way today, you will land in a world of hurt. It isn't right, but it is reality in this world where right is wrong and wrong is right. My prediction is it will get worse.
    I'd rather be in a world of hurt, even lose the job than place myself in a position to receive grave bodily harm. You'd only go to jail if he died. There's a right way and wrong way to put people down/to sleep. Though there's always the potential for them to expire, in every instance I've used it to gain compliance with a combative, none have suffered anything more than their dignity.

    There's a time and place to be PC, and playing softball in a hardball game of life and death, isn't one of them.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Yup. It's not just a job ender, it's a freedom ender.
    ONLY if they die. I've probably put a 1/2 dozen people to sleep or close to nap time, none came close to dying. Only two while in uniform, the rest in other street work. I'd rather they take a nap than have to shoot them or suffer injuries myself.
    The mind is the limiting factor

    The lion does not even bother to turn his head when he hears the small dog barking.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/azqkr

    Quick Kill Rifle and Pistol Instructor

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