Minneapolis bans "fear-based warrior-style" training for police

Minneapolis bans "fear-based warrior-style" training for police

This is a discussion on Minneapolis bans "fear-based warrior-style" training for police within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2019/...-training-ban/ Some articles specifically mention training based on Grossman's "Killology" work as an example of what will be prohibited. The union has already basically told ...

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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Minneapolis bans "fear-based warrior-style" training for police

    https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2019/...-training-ban/

    Some articles specifically mention training based on Grossman's "Killology" work as an example of what will be prohibited. The union has already basically told the mayor to get lost. It will be interesting to watch.
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    My understanding of Grossman’s Killology training for Police is that they should be more quick to use lethal force and emulate the warrior mentality of the military. Grossman was an Army Ranger, and he thinks LEOs should think and act in that manner. I clearly state that I have no firsthand knowledge of what I just wrote, and it is based upon reading about Grossman.

    I tend to think that developing that mindset in police officers is a bad thing to do. Warfighters face enemies who want to kill them on the battlefield. Hesitation can get them killed. However when operatingnin a civilian environment warfighters are subject to more restrictive rules of engagement. They have to be concerned about using lethal if certain criteria are not met. So perhaps Grosman is applying battlefield rules,of engagement to civilian environments. I do not know.

    But I do know that being trained to kill does make a person more capable of doing so. In the case of the armed opponent that capability can save your life. But police more often than not face unarmed persons. That is why I have a concern. Incidents of police officers shooting an unarmed person always make the news. I fear that training a police officer to be more willing to killl could increase those occurrences. That would be bad for the the police because it would bring them under more unwarranted scrutiny than they now face. That could affect good policing negatively.

    I would not take such a course if I were a LEO. if I did and I shot someone under questionable circumstance my training to more readily kill someone could come back to haunt me. There has to be a better way than trying police officers to be killers.
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    VIP Member Array Hoganbeg's Avatar
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    It's been a while since I read that work but as I recall it was about overcoming the inherent reluctance to use lethal force when it is needed. That is different from being too quick to use it or using it inappropriately. The fact is, if it is time to use a gun you don't want to hesitate. It's about the proper mindset for defensive combat. If we are going to allow officers the right of lethal force and equip them with those tools, then we should be certain to give them the training that fosters that mindset.
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    VIP Member Array Struckat's Avatar
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    They should be referred to as minnefrisco...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Struckat View Post
    They should be referred to as minnefrisco...

    Minnemogadisu more like it
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    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Too many officers are hesitating now. Being more willing to use lethal force in obviously dangerous situations isn't a bad thing. The drug problem isn't getting better as the values that helped keep it at bay are being eroded away by the socialists.

    The article, like most "news" items is missing a lot of details. Honestly, police should treat everyone as hostile when responding a call until they prove otherwise. Hostile meaning potential threats. That doesn't mean they should just start arresting and/or shooting people immediately upon arriving at a call.
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    Such pronouncements can be expected from any large, blue city administration at any time, given the escalating current climate against the police.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFury View Post
    ...The article, like most "news" items is missing a lot of details. Honestly, police should treat everyone as hostile when responding a call until they prove otherwise. Hostile meaning potential threats. That doesn't mean they should just start arresting and/or shooting people immediately upon arriving at a call.
    Like when your hands are up, you announce you have a concealed weapons license, the officer asks for ID, then freaks out when you tell him you're reaching for your ID (or license).

    This is the city where an officer was completely mentally unprepared to deal with a licensed gun owner. The officer surrendered control of his (NON CRIMINAL) stop to his fear of the word "gun".

    I have no confidence in this mayor to be able to identify good training, but our police are clearly overdue for some updated training. The 80's war on drugs doctrine (when most states were may issue) is outdated. The drug war has changed. Citizen gun ownership has changed.
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    VIP Member Array Cuda66's Avatar
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    This is coming about primarily from the Justine Damond shooting, I suspect.
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    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    One thing is for absolute certain. Anyone who believes police training is centered around what Grossman has written, knows neither about Grossman's writings, nor police training.

    Minnesota seems to have become the idiot capital of the country.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

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    Senior Member Array DownInTheDark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    One thing is for absolute certain. Anyone who believes police training is centered around what Grossman has written, knows neither about Grossman's writings, nor police training.

    Minnesota seems to have become the idiot capital of the country.
    I am going with Seattle, but both are fine choices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DownInTheDark View Post
    I am going with Seattle, but both are fine choices.
    I dunno. The competition for Idiot Capital of the Country is pretty fierce. I don't think either of these take top honors. I mean, there's San Francisco, LA, Chicago, NYC, Baltimore, etc. And then our national Capital, DC has to be in the running. There are more idiots there with authority, per square mile, than anyplace else in the world. And now we have Dallas coming on strong with its not prosecuting thieves who steal under $750.

    What's really embarrassing about this is now cities the US used to make fun of, like Paris and London, are looking at us and going, "Whoa! That's even too idiotic for us!"
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    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post

    Minnesota seems to have become the idiot capital of the country.
    Get in line.

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    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    I'm really not sure where I fall on this. I think there should be some oversight on the training that police receive, but this particular move is clearly pandering to the left-wing base, not an attempt to actually solve a problem. They want Barney Fifes with one bullet in a pocket.

    At any rate, it seems a stretch for a mayor to tell police what they can do on their own time with their own money.
    "Lots of ways to help people. Sometimes heal patients; sometimes shoot dangerous people. Either way helps."
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