First Responder Murdered After Giving Narcan - Page 3

First Responder Murdered After Giving Narcan

This is a discussion on First Responder Murdered After Giving Narcan within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; While this is certainly a tragedy, it remains the responsibility of the first responders to secure the scene and the players....

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Thread: First Responder Murdered After Giving Narcan

  1. #31
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    While this is certainly a tragedy, it remains the responsibility of the first responders to secure the scene and the players.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Array KevinRohrer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fish View Post
    Sorry Sir; but that really is a STUPID statement.
    But accurate as I raised my children not to use illicit drugs, and they do not. So how is it stupid?
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    Not everyone who dies injured others on their way. The fact that your family members are productive members of society is irrelevant. So are many other people who kill people in drunk driving accidents, or otherwise clog the hospitals because of poor health habits. .

    Itís a shame that the firefighter died. We could argue that things could have been done differently here, but it is not their job to decide if someone is worth treating or not. Youíre looking at this from an emotional point of view. Thereís no room here for that.

    You choosing not to donate bone marrow is your choice. But if youíre looking for an applause, you wonít get it from me. I can care less either way what you decide to do. But from a professional stance, if someone calls 911, its not ok to decide whether a life is worth saving or not.
    I'm not looking for applause. I was making a point - when I had the opportunity to choose, I went with my feelings. And, you're right, I am looking at it from an emotional perspective, and this is exactly the place for that. Illicit drug use, drunk driving, dealing drugs, robbing/raping/injuring someone, all the same to me. My personal feelings are that if you're involved in such activities and OD, get shot, stabbed, or even get leukemia in prison, you're getting exactly what you deserve.

    However, you don't make a choice to act at the scene based on personal feelings, you do your job. What I think of someone doesn't have any bearing on the treatment they get from me when they come in the ER or are admitted to the hospital. Nor did it when I was an LEO. I'm a professional, I can separate my personal life and feelings from my professional life. It's not up to me, in that capacity, to decide if a life is worth saving or not, and I do everything I can to keep them alive, regardless of how I feel. But my profession doesn't dictate my feelings. Just like you have expressed your feelings on the subject and about other peoples comments, I've expressed mine.
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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WC145 View Post
    I'm not looking for applause. I was making a point - when I had the opportunity to choose, I went with my feelings. And, you're right, I am looking at it from an emotional perspective, and this is exactly the place for that. Illicit drug use, drunk driving, dealing drugs, robbing/raping/injuring someone, all the same to me. My personal feelings are that if you're involved in such activities and OD, get shot, stabbed, or even get leukemia in prison, you're getting exactly what you deserve.

    However, you don't make a choice to act at the scene based on personal feelings, you do your job. What I think of someone doesn't have any bearing on the treatment they get from me when they come in the ER or are admitted to the hospital. Nor did it when I was an LEO. I'm a professional, I can separate my personal life and feelings from my professional life. It's not up to me, in that capacity, to decide if a life is worth saving or not, and I do everything I can to keep them alive, regardless of how I feel. But my profession doesn't dictate my feelings. Just like you have expressed your feelings on the subject and about other peoples comments, I've expressed mine.
    I do agree here.
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  6. #35
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    But accurate as I raised my children not to use illicit drugs, and they do not. So how is it stupid?
    A lot of people say that. Of course I donít know you and your family. But if I had a dollar for every time someone found out their child, sibling, spouse, or whoever wasnít as much of a perfect angel as they thought...
    We get the government we deserve.

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array pskys2's Avatar
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    Why should a para medic ruin someone's high. If the high gets them a meet with the almighty, that's their choice and I'm all for freedom of choice.

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by pskys2 View Post
    Why should a para medic ruin someone's high. If the high gets them a meet with the almighty, that's their choice and I'm all for freedom of choice.
    Because it's not their job to decide who deserves saving. You don't want to live in that world. They have neither the background information nor a million other necessary pieces to make those decisions even if you wanted them to. After all, how do you know the "junkie" took the high voluntarily? How do you know this isn't someone with a debilitating chronic disease who was trying a little too hard to get relief. How do you know it's not your neighbor's kid who stole a bottle of grandma's cancer oxycodone because a bully told her to kill herself? You want to have a black and white world onto which you want to project your judgment, to the point of life and death. That's arrogant, short sighted, and simply wrong. It's also a horrific precedent. After all why should the EMT limit their decisions whether or not to help just to opiate overdose? Think about what you're proposing before you blurt it out. Otherwise you're no better than the anti gun politicians who care more about the soundbite than the truth. The world is complex. That's ok. Our philosophy of living in it shouldn't have to be a one sentence blurb. Life isn't Twitter. Take it from someone who deals in life and death on a daily basis.
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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    But accurate as I raised my children not to use illicit drugs, and they do not. So how is it stupid?
    They could always start.

    Or OD without using, as happens to first responders.
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  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnius View Post
    Because it's not their job to decide who deserves saving. You don't want to live in that world. They have neither the background information nor a million other necessary pieces to make those decisions even if you wanted them to. After all, how do you know the "junkie" took the high voluntarily? How do you know this isn't someone with a debilitating chronic disease who was trying a little too hard to get relief. How do you know it's not your neighbor's kid who stole a bottle of grandma's cancer oxycodone because a bully told her to kill herself? You want to have a black and white world onto which you want to project your judgment, to the point of life and death. That's arrogant, short sighted, and simply wrong. It's also a horrific precedent. After all why should the EMT limit their decisions whether or not to help just to opiate overdose? Think about what you're proposing before you blurt it out. Otherwise you're no better than the anti gun politicians who care more about the soundbite than the truth. The world is complex. That's ok. Our philosophy of living in it shouldn't have to be a one sentence blurb. Life isn't Twitter. Take it from someone who deals in life and death on a daily basis.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion on first responders administering narcan in the field, even if you don't like it. Yes, there may be the occasional erroneous OD by some non-addicts but by and large the people that are being revived are like the guy in the article. I've been a respiratory therapist for over 25 years, I have worked a ridiculous number of codes on ODs. In all that time I have yet to see a patient given narcan pop up and thank everybody because it was just a close call from trying to alleviate chronic back pain.
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  11. #40
    Senior Member Array dripster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entertainment72 View Post
    Many of these overdoses around the nation are suicide attempts whether wittingly or not.

    Stop reviving them...
    I'm not sure of which Police Chief it was, who said it best. My Officers will respond to your overdose and administer Narcan to save you. If they have to come a second time they will not administer it again and your out of luck.
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  12. #41
    Senior Member Array pskys2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnius View Post
    Because it's not their job to decide who deserves saving. You don't want to live in that world. They have neither the background information nor a million other necessary pieces to make those decisions even if you wanted them to. After all, how do you know the "junkie" took the high voluntarily? How do you know this isn't someone with a debilitating chronic disease who was trying a little too hard to get relief. How do you know it's not your neighbor's kid who stole a bottle of grandma's cancer oxycodone because a bully told her to kill herself? You want to have a black and white world onto which you want to project your judgment, to the point of life and death. That's arrogant, short sighted, and simply wrong. It's also a horrific precedent. After all why should the EMT limit their decisions whether or not to help just to opiate overdose? Think about what you're proposing before you blurt it out. Otherwise you're no better than the anti gun politicians who care more about the soundbite than the truth. The world is complex. That's ok. Our philosophy of living in it shouldn't have to be a one sentence blurb. Life isn't Twitter. Take it from someone who deals in life and death on a daily basis.
    It was tongue in cheek, morbid humor. I full well understand the issues. You never even touched on the legal aspect of doing one's job as a para medic.
    OD* likes this.

  13. #42
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    Having worked as a paramedic for a number of years I offer these thoughts; Scene safety comes first, law enforcement is almost always present and can check for weapons on the victim, first responders don't always know why the victim is unconscious, if they fail to follow protocols and withhold Narcan the victim may die, Narcan works FAST when administered by IV or injector pens, patients can recover in less than a minute. first responders have a duty to act and cannot legally refuse to provide treatment to anyone who is unresponsive or mentally impaired. Just some thoughts, things may be different in your part of the land.
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  14. #43
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    What about designing a restraint for the arms and hands that allows first responders to quickly secure the arms of someone before administration of Narcan? Something like a flat board behind the back allowing arms straight out at sides for IV and blood pressure cuff access, but keeping hands from reaching for weapons or striking or flailing.
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  15. #44
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    I am sorry but I say let them die because they do not appreciate life anyways and rehab does not work .
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  16. #45
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael48632 View Post
    I am sorry but I say let them die because they do not appreciate life anyways and rehab does not work .
    Thatís a bold assumption to make.
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