Leo oath at time of appointment - Page 2

Leo oath at time of appointment

This is a discussion on Leo oath at time of appointment within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; So academies brainwash the cops that all laws and orders are just and true. That explains a lot....

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  1. #16
    Member Array simple_man17's Avatar
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    So academies brainwash the cops that all laws and orders are just and true.

    That explains a lot.
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  2. #17
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simple_man17 View Post
    So academies brainwash the cops that all laws and orders are just and true.

    That explains a lot.
    Your reading comprehension skills are seriously lacking.

  3. #18
    Member Array simple_man17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Your reading comprehension skills are seriously lacking.
    Here, I quoted YOU

    that's why the academies spent 3 weeks on that subject alone, so the leo's are given guidance and rules to follow, not left to decide on their own.
    The state wants good, mindless, obedient minions enforcing their laws. Not the type like the sheriffs in WA that refuse to enforce obvious and blatant unconstitutional laws. Just ask the WA AG....he is suing them. But hey, the Nuremberg defense is cool, right? At least for you.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    @AzQkr : Have it your way, but don't imagine you are effectively excusing LEOs in everyone's minds. You explanation has the opposite effect on me. I really, really try not to think "gun confiscator" and "BOR violator" every time I see a cop. Your posts have made that harder, not easier.

    BTW, there was news video a couple of years ago of a Henrico County cop, a Sargent IIRC, arresting a guy for OC'ing a holster, no gun. The video showed the guy refusing to answer the cop's questions and clearly stating he was invoking his right to remain silent. The cop said, very plainly for the camera, "We don't have the right to remain silent in Henrico County." The guy with the holster was released with no charges within an hour. This is what happens when cops are automatons who don't understand the Constitution.
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    Nazis, war crimes, crimes against humanity, Nurnberg...

    It takes a war to have war crime tribunals. Until then, we are stuck with the legislative, judicial and executive processes by which we are governed.
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  7. #21
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    @AzQkr : Have it your way, but don't imagine you are effectively excusing LEOs in everyone's minds. You explanation has the opposite effect on me. I really, really try not to think "gun confiscator" and "BOR violator" every time I see a cop. Your posts have made that harder, not easier.

    BTW, there was news video a couple of years ago of a Henrico County cop, a Sargent IIRC, arresting a guy for OC'ing a holster, no gun. The video showed the guy refusing to answer the cop's questions and clearly stating he was invoking his right to remain silent. The cop said, very plainly for the camera, "We don't have the right to remain silent in Henrico County." The guy with the holster was released with no charges within an hour. This is what happens when cops are automatons who don't understand the Constitution.
    Obviously, that cop knew he was wrong when he spoke it. But the kid was wrong as well. No one has to invoke the right to remain silent until such time he'd been placed under arrest.

    What gave you the impression I was trying to excuse leo's? I'm not excusing or accusing in this discussion. I'm simply providing a gateway of facts relative an leo's oath whose parts automatically put them in conflict with each other. But I do feel leo's take it in the shorts far too often here by people who are unaware of the conflicts within the oath.

    Also just providing the fact academies take rights seriously enough to afford 3 full weeks of same at the academy I attended. Any leo knows to violate someones rights will invite serious disciplinary action or dismissal or charges or all 3. It's that serious we knew a citizens rights. But there was no discussion on 2a rights, state laws that conflict with the Doc, etc in that 3 weeks. There was full bore others like 5th, 14th. But state laws didn't conflict with those that I remember so they were inviolate.

    Others though, like state laws vs 2a as an example, nothing. The state, nor the academy, nor the courts concerned themselves with violation of rights, instead by omission, all 3 were stating their oath to uphold the laws was the order of the day. IWO, if they didn't teach you specifically what you could not do or violate ones rights, you fell back to state law or your commanders, who probably would then fall back on state law. Why? Because all 3 entities deemed it to be by their omitting it from academy training.

    They knew the conflicts existed, they created the conflicts. They didn't care.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Obviously, that cop knew he was wrong when he spoke it. But the kid was wrong as well. No one has to invoke the right to remain silent until such time he'd been placed under arrest.
    I disagree with that. Check out "Salinas v. Texas." This was covered in an NRA concealed carry course I took. The defendant was not under arrest, but remained silent under questioning. He then made one statement that was used against him. The precedent is: If you want to remain silent until your legal counsel is present and not have what you say used against you, you have to specifically say words to the effect that you are invoking your right to remain silent and not be questioned without a lawyer present. That is true whether you are under arrest or not. Concealed carriers should be aware of that.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    The US Constitution is supposed to be the law of the land--all states included--and it is supposed to override state laws, so by default, whether included in the LEO's oath or not, they should be aware of and follow the guidelines of the US Constitution even if not included specifically in their oaths.

    Supposedly...

    As a service member, I followed state laws even though I never took any oath to observe anything other than the US Constitution and lawful orders of my superiors.
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  10. #24
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simple_man17 View Post
    Here, I quoted YOU



    The state wants good, mindless, obedient minions enforcing their laws. Not the type like the sheriffs in WA that refuse to enforce obvious and blatant unconstitutional laws. Just ask the WA AG....he is suing them. But hey, the Nuremberg defense is cool, right? At least for you.
    That's not what my quote suggests, it's how you read it [ thus a reading comprehension issue ].

    I stated the academy and thus the state took 3 full weeks to make sure leo's knew of rights they were not to violate. That the academy gave it 3 weeks instead of 1 or even 2 only suggests 120 hours of Constitutional law was adequate for most to act in a lawful manner when they got out on the streets engaging citizens in various scenarios. They aren't churning out Rhodes law scholars at the academy on rights, but they are giving it plenty of class time and importance, as they should.

  11. #25
    Member Array simple_man17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    That's not what my quote suggests, it's how you read it [ thus a reading comprehension issue ].

    I stated the academy and thus the state took 3 full weeks to make sure leo's knew of rights they were not to violate. That the academy gave it 3 weeks instead of 1 or even 2 only suggests 120 hours of Constitutional law was adequate for most to act in a lawful manner when they got out on the streets engaging citizens in various scenarios. They aren't churning out Rhodes law scholars at the academy on rights, but they are giving it plenty of class time and importance, as they should.
    And yet, they knowingly serve 'warrants' for seizure of private property without due process or just compensation given......And they were seizing property without making an arrest. Maybe they need 240 hours? Dunno.
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  12. #26
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    The US Constitution is supposed to be the law of the land--all states included--and it is supposed to override state laws, so by default, whether included in the LEO's oath or not, they should be aware of and follow the guidelines of the US Constitution even if not included specifically in their oaths.

    Supposedly...

    As a service member, I followed state laws even though I never took any oath to observe anything other than the US Constitution and lawful orders of my superiors.
    Altruistically, couldn't agree more. But that's not the way this country has operated for a very long time. The problem is when altruistic bumps heads with reality. One can only get to altruistic by changing reality to fit. Until then, we live with reality, not "supposed".
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  13. #27
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simple_man17 View Post
    And yet, they knowingly serve 'warrants' for seizure of private property without due process or just compensation given......And they were seizing property without making an arrest. Maybe they need 240 hours? Dunno.
    Warrants issued by a court are lawful. Constitutionality of laws isn't decided by leo's.
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  14. #28
    Member Array simple_man17's Avatar
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    Well, I guess if lawful is your only requirement, then when they ban guns, you will be the first one in line to turn yours in.
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  15. #29
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    Fla. Sheriff oath swears to uphold constitution of USA ; )
    H/D
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogdaddy View Post
    Fla. Sheriff oath swears to uphold constitution of USA ; )
    H/D
    For those interested.

    https://dos.myflorida.com/media/693640/dsde56.pdf
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