If You Are Like This Guy, You Are Not Helping... - Page 10

If You Are Like This Guy, You Are Not Helping...

This is a discussion on If You Are Like This Guy, You Are Not Helping... within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by frgood Some of the comparisons being made are not quite in alignment. First, coming from a family with several member who were ...

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  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by frgood View Post
    Some of the comparisons being made are not quite in alignment.
    First, coming from a family with several member who were 'first blacks', All of these men and women were not out to make a political statement. They just wanted to do what they enjoyed doing. This applies to playing football and achieving high ranks in the military. On the flip side, my father did work to change the political landscape in Massachusetts during the 60's.

    Second, and my history is a little weak on this one. I am not sure of the that Parks set out to make a change. She, like most, were simply tired of the experience and just sat down. Life being black during the the first half of the century was exhausting.

    Last, Open carry pre-, during, and post the reconstruction was not a political statement but more of intimidation and defense. From some of the history of Race and guns that I am currently reading, the US looked to be on the verge of a major internal war. Both sides of race were definitely in a full feud.

    Admittedly, I am still learning/reading historical works, but at this moment, I am seriously considering that the emancipation was more out of political necessity to prevent a complete war. Many local gun laws were enacted as local attempts to control one side or the other.

    In other words, there is more depth to Rosa Parks than current OC statements.the background was far more violent than current OC statements which seem to be more of an effort to change minds. As a result, I remain on the fence but do default to acceptance of their actions although, the activity could be better organized for a cleaner result.
    Which is one of several reasons that I dislike apples-to-oranges analogies as opposed to solid arguments for one's position.

    Thanks for weighing in.
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  2. #137
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    You laid claim to the last word some eighty-three posts ago, yet are back in for another six-paragraph rant. Hokey-dokey.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    And therein lies the basic problem. We form judgments based on a single photo. We don't know who this is from Adam. We don't have any more idea what his purpose is than the man in the moon. In short, we work from total ignorance and then judge someone an idiot because of what the PHOTO seems to show.For better or worse, this is often how life works. We get a blurb, sound-byte or photo upon which to base our opinions. This works across the spectrum of world views. People who know little to nothing positive about guns have their biases confirmed based on photos like the one shown in the OP.

    When I wore a badge we had a practice that worked pretty well. Everyone who wore a badge got the benefit of the doubt, until proven conclusively that they were not worthy of it. In fact, everyone, badge or not, got the benefit of the doubt until we had evidence to the contrary. People say a picture speaks a thousand words, and that may be true.If the guy had a badge on in the picture, I missed it. But no one has ever said a single photo, or even 30 minutes of video, tells the WHOLE STORY. It doesn't cost anybody anything (except a bit of childish chest thumping) to give ALL gun owners the benefit of the doubt until the person is proven by the evidence not to warrant it.Toting an AR in an unexpected scenario is childish chest thumping taken to the max, IMO

    The best way I know for everyone to lose ALL rights protected under the 2nd Amendment is for gun owners to judge all other gun owners motives and intentions based on ignorance because all we see is a PHOTO. Continuing to sway public opinion further into the anti-gun camp with foolish, poorly-conceived displays of open carry is a much better way, again, IMO.We turn on each other at the drop of a hat, and then wonder why the people who want to confiscate guns continue to make strides to do just that. Telling someone their behavior is fool-hardy isn't turning on them. To the contrary, it is merely pointing out the folly of their endeavor, whatever their rationale may be. No different than voicing safety concerns at the range.

    Does anyone here remember the vehemence that gun owners who only hunt used on anyone who dared to suggest it should be legal for people wanting to protect their lives to carry a pistol? Nope, that one must have gotten by me. I was around and paying attention when the move from no issue to shall issue happened in Ohio in 2004, and I don't recall any anti-CC Fudds getting mic time during the debates and demonstrations.

    IMHO it would be far better we reserve judgement until the evidence is in. The photo and accompanying text are all the evidence we are likely to get, so that is what we get to formulate our opinion upon.In that way we would present a united front. I'm just not sold on the fact that those who judge and condemn the motives of others based on such superficial evidence are not a greater threat to freedom than anyone else - even those who stand on a presidential debate stage and declare they intend to confiscate guns. Merely another key point upon which we diametrically disagree.

    And I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but exactly how many of YOU have done ANYTHING to convince ANYONE in a public place that concealed carriers, (who are secretive in the extreme) are worthy to be trusted with a gun? And by that I mean let anyone know you carry a deadly weapon but would never use it to harm an innocent person? Anyone who carries concealed ever done that to influence anyone? You think anybody has ever looked at you (with your carefully hidden pistol) and said to themselves, "Wow, that is a responsible gun owner" ?

    [/RANT OVER]
    Edit: I was about to PM you with the assurance that our disagreement on this issue is in no way intended to be directed at you personally, or that I am taking any of it personally. It occurred to me that I could say the same thing to several other posters here, so much better to simply state it on-board expressing the same sentiment. We can and sometimes do disagree bitterly, but for me it is never personal, giving or taking. I enjoy these discussions, even if no opinions are changed or if passions sometime run high.
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  3. #138
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGunTX View Post
    What? Are you on something? If I was concerned about using my gun to protect myself or my family if we are under a threat, I might as well not carry at all. However, there is absolutely no reason to feed the Anti's stereotype when i am carrying.
    Feeding the stereotype...that you’re a person who is armed? You either care about their feelings or you don’t.
    We get the government we deserve.

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  5. #139
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    "Telling someone their behavior is fool-hardy isn't turning on them. To the contrary, it is merely pointing out the folly of their endeavor, whatever their rationale may be. No different than voicing safety concerns at the range."

    Well said, @Mike1956
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  6. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    Feeding the stereotype...that you’re a person who is armed? You either care about their feelings or you don’t.
    Generally, I do, particularly when those feelings have the very real potential to affect my facts.
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  7. #141
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    Wasn't there a time back during the "wild west" days when open carrying firearms was normal and expected and if someone concealed their firearm they were considered sneaky and were up to no good? I seem to recall reading that there were even old laws on the books back then that banned conceal carrying of firearms. It's interesting how trends change over time.
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  8. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by m5215 View Post
    Wasn't there a time back during the "wild west" days when open carrying firearms was normal and expected and if someone concealed their firearm they were considered sneaky and were up to no good? I seem to recall reading that there were even old laws on the books back then that banned conceal carrying of firearms. It's interesting how trends change over time.
    In Ohio, concealed carry was made illegal in 1859. The wild midwest?

    Indian massacres, taking scalps, and other since-frowned-upon activities were also normal and expected at one time. Times and mores change.
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  9. #143
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    You laid claim to the last word some eighty-three posts ago, yet are back in for another six-paragraph rant. Hokey-dokey.



    Edit: I was about to PM you with the assurance that our disagreement on this issue is in no way intended to be directed at you personally, or that I am taking any of it personally. It occurred to me that I could say the same thing to several other posters here, so much better to simply state it on-board expressing the same sentiment. We can and sometimes do disagree bitterly, but for me it is never personal, giving or taking. I enjoy these discussions, even if no opinions are changed or if passions sometime run high.
    While my opinions and beliefs are opposite of yours on the issue of open carry based on your postings, and the postings of others with whom I disagree, on other issues besides the open carry/concealed carry constant disagreement I would still be proud to sit and have a cuppa coffee with you.

    But I highly doubt coffee will change my, or your, mind on this issue.
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  10. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    But I highly doubt coffee will change my, or your, mind on this issue.
    I recommend bourbon. No one fights over bourbon.
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  11. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I recommend bourbon. No one fights over bourbon.
    Until you get to the last pour out of the bottle, that is.
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  12. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuda66 View Post
    Until you get to the last pour out of the bottle, that is.
    I just pop the cork on another.
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  13. #147
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    Um, just wanted to add; if y’all could add some pictures to this thread it would be easier on some of us that have a hard time with a bunch of words.

    I mean this said in a gentle manner as not to offend

    It ain’t A.D.D. Friendly, would be easier to follow if y’all had pictures.


    (edited to add: Thanks OV for the picture 💕 )
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  14. #148
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    @Mike1956 I agree...and I'll not answer each point you responded to. I stand by what I said. Obviously you didn't understand what I said about benefit of the doubt. When it comes to that, I give that benefit to a lot of people I don't know personally - regardless of their wearing a badge or not. You cannot serve as a pastor and chaplain for 40 years and not do that.

    If anyone on this thread can enlighten us as to what exact event this was, what state it was in, what the guys' name is, what his purpose in carrying was...indeed if anyone can present any facts whatsoever beyond conjecture, I'll be happy to hear them. Otherwise, I refuse to pass judgement based on a photo. I learned this practice when I witnessed the continual distortion of facts by people who should know better.

    Nothing personal whatsoever. And just so everyone knows...If I say that's my last word on the subject just take it that I'm talking to myself. I reserve the right to give my word to myself and then break it. If we're face to face and I say something, my word is absolute. On the internet? Hardly.

    IMHO The whole discussion could have been ended on the first page by two posts, "He's an idiot" and "I don't see what all the fuss is about." Yet nearly 150 posts later here we are still arguing the same two points of view over and over...ad infinitum, ad nauseum. Have we learned anything? I'll let you be the judge of that.

    I think we need to just agree to disagree.
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  15. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sister View Post
    Um, just wanted to add; if y’all could add some pictures to this thread it would be easier on some of us that have a hard time with a bunch of words.

    I mean this said in a gentle manner as not to offend

    It ain’t A.D.D. Friendly, would be easier to follow if y’all had pictures.


    (edited to add: Thanks OV for the picture 💕 )
    The link in the first post tells us that it took place at a farmers' market in Alexandria, Virginia.
    Sister likes this.
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  16. #150
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    And the homosexual community gain their rights and acceptance by being nice and respectful? Nope, they gained acceptance by being exactly like the guy in the picture.
    When seconds count, help is only 18+ minutes away!

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