If You Are Like This Guy, You Are Not Helping... - Page 12

If You Are Like This Guy, You Are Not Helping...

This is a discussion on If You Are Like This Guy, You Are Not Helping... within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I and many others tend to be practical in daily life. Even if it is legal to open carry a rifle or shotgun, I'm not ...

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  1. #166
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    I and many others tend to be practical in daily life. Even if it is legal to open carry a rifle or shotgun, I'm not generally going to walk around all day wearing an AR-15 at least not in the low crime and low risk environment I'm in. Can something happen that forces me to respond with deadly force? Sure, and that's why I carry a pistol.

    Because of this it's unlikely that OC of long guns will become a common sight during normal life. As it is, many (most?) CCW permit holders don't even EDC a pistol; advocating more people EDC a rifle isn't a winning strategy, it simply isn't going to happen.

    Honestly, if I see someone walk into my church with an AR-15 my concern meter is going to peg quickly. I'm not afraid of guns at all, I've slept with a full auto more years of my life than I care to admit while overseas, but seeing someone carry a carbine to mass in the US is so far beyond social norms that it will get my full attention.
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  2. #167
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Those spectacular unfavorable results happened at first when the few individuals started open carrying pistols in Michigan too. And yet because people persevered the end result was spectacularly favorable.
    Is there historical record of the above that can be researched? Was it met as favorably in Flynt and Detroit cities? You make it appear as if OC is prevalent in those inner cities, I'd have to see some documentation in that

  3. #168
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    I and many others tend to be practical in daily life. Even if it is legal to open carry a rifle or shotgun, I'm not generally going to walk around all day wearing an AR-15 at least not in the low crime and low risk environment I'm in. Can something happen that forces me to respond with deadly force? Sure, and that's why I carry a pistol.

    Because of this it's unlikely that OC of long guns will become a common sight during normal life. As it is, many (most?) CCW permit holders don't even EDC a pistol; advocating more people EDC a rifle isn't a winning strategy, it simply isn't going to happen.

    Honestly, if I see someone walk into my church with an AR-15 my concern meter is going to peg quickly. I'm not afraid of guns at all, I've slept with a full auto more years of my life than I care to admit while overseas, but seeing someone carry a carbine to mass in the US is so far beyond social norms that it will get my full attention.
    Soon as seen, some of us would start moving into a position to respond if need be in that scenario.
    PhaedrusIV, Cuda66 and graydude like this.

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  5. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    I and many others tend to be practical in daily life. Even if it is legal to open carry a rifle or shotgun, I'm not generally going to walk around all day wearing an AR-15 at least not in the low crime and low risk environment I'm in. Can something happen that forces me to respond with deadly force? Sure, and that's why I carry a pistol.

    Because of this it's unlikely that OC of long guns will become a common sight during normal life. As it is, many (most?) CCW permit holders don't even EDC a pistol; advocating more people EDC a rifle isn't a winning strategy, it simply isn't going to happen.

    Honestly, if I see someone walk into my church with an AR-15 my concern meter is going to peg quickly. I'm not afraid of guns at all, I've slept with a full auto more years of my life than I care to admit while overseas, but seeing someone carry a carbine to mass in the US is so far beyond social norms that it will get my full attention.
    My immediate reaction will be that he has come to kill us all.

    It's not much of a stretch to believe that those less-versed and unaccustomed to seeing such things in their everyday lives will believe the same thing in other venues.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

    "Slaves, enjoy your freedom." Chuck Klosterman

  6. #170
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Where did I mention anything about specifically inner cities? I have repeatedly said open carriers had a favorable effect on Michigan's public opinion about guns in public and that is true.

    There aren't any studies or even any polls that I am aware of that addresses how open carry has changed public opinion in inner cities but there is this:

    https://www.macombdaily.com/news/det...74013d57d.html

    Detroit Open Carry | YouCanCarry.com

    And I can offer the subjective evidence of my own experiences in Flint from the beginning of the open carry movement when folks looked at me with caution to now when people just don't care. Not much to go on but there it is.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  7. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Where did I mention anything about specifically inner cities? I have repeatedly said open carriers had a favorable effect on Michigan's public opinion about guns in public and that is true.

    There aren't any studies or even any polls that I am aware of that addresses how open carry has changed public opinion in inner cities but there is this:

    https://www.macombdaily.com/news/det...74013d57d.html

    Detroit Open Carry | YouCanCarry.com
    How about churches? You good with an unfamiliar AR guy coming in to educate the parishioners on the virtues of open carry?
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

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  8. #172
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    How about churches? You good with an unfamiliar AR guy coming in to educate the parishioners on the virtues of open carry?
    Yes. Do you have a problem with guns in church?
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  9. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Yes. Do you have a problem with guns in church?
    Like I said a couple posts back, if I see such a sight in mine, I will go with the belief he has come to kill us all.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

    "Slaves, enjoy your freedom." Chuck Klosterman

  10. #174
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Yes. Do you have a problem with guns in church?
    Like I said a couple posts back, if I see such a sight in mine, I will go with the belief he has come to kill us all.
    Would it be different if the guy brought in a pistol?
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  11. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Would it be different if the guy brought in a pistol?
    In hand? Absolutely not.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

    "Slaves, enjoy your freedom." Chuck Klosterman

  12. #176
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Would it be different if the guy brought in a pistol?
    In hand? Absolutely not.
    You didn't say anything about "in hand" when you asked:

    Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    How about churches? You good with an unfamiliar AR guy coming in to educate the parishioners on the virtues of open carry?
    Moving goalposts?
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  13. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    You didn't say anything about "in hand" when you asked:


    Moving goalposts?
    Not at all, unless the AR guy has somehow made his rifle invisible.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

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  14. #178
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    You didn't say anything about "in hand" when you asked:


    Moving goalposts?
    Not at all, unless the AR guy has somehow made his rifle invisible.
    If you are referring to the guy in the picture in the original post his hold isn't a firing grip but is a stabilizing grip to keep the rifle secure. Sure that grip can change into a firing grip but so could someone resting their wrist/arm on their pistol change into a firing grip.

    Maybe you would consider those actions to be evidence of the intent to shoot up the place but I would take that and the totality of the person's actions/behavior into consideration before deciding if there is danger or not. The mere presence of the gun and the man's hand on the gun alone would not be the deciding factor.
    RedSafety likes this.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  15. #179
    Distinguished Member Array RedSafety's Avatar
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    How about 2-4 guys in suits/ladies in nice dresses or business suits, maybe even ties, carrying an AR, handing out literature on AR's and guns, real stories of how citizens defended themselves and others from violent criminals. This is assuming open carry is legal. Right outside the Walmart parking lot where there's normally some guy or gal with a sign, needing help with medicine, gas, food, etc.
    Bikenut likes this.
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  16. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    If you are referring to the guy in the picture in the original post his hold isn't a firing grip but is a stabilizing grip to keep the rifle secure. Sure that grip can change into a firing grip but so could someone resting their wrist/arm on their pistol change into a firing grip.

    Maybe you would consider those actions to be evidence of the intent to shoot up the place but I would take that and the totality of the person's actions/behavior into consideration before deciding if there is danger or not. The mere presence of the gun and the man's hand on the gun alone would not be the deciding factor.
    The sight of the rifle itself in my synagogue would indeed be the deciding factor, unless there was a cop in uniform behind it. Even at that, I would be extremely suspicious of the legitimacy of his credentials and presence there.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

    "Slaves, enjoy your freedom." Chuck Klosterman

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