Defensive Carry banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

If You Are Like This Guy, You Are Not Helping...

8K views 214 replies 48 participants last post by  gasmitty 
#1 ·
People Jeans T-shirt Fashion Crowd



We are not on the same team, I disagree with your actions entirely, and believe you are causing gun rights in general irreparable harm.

The views expressed in this essay mirror my own:

https://tinkertalksguns.wordpress.c...8inOgGFCUuieEkJQ3cKo6fVk1BBluwEqHp9JNZ7m9NjZg

"Our 2nd Amendment rights are under an exceptionally high level of threat right now, and we are very likely to lose some of our rights. When we do I will blame this person and persons like him before I blame Democrats, ‘sheeple’ etc., because he should know better. Adults are supposed to assess the likely effects of their actions and work towards their desired outcome. Actions like this are counter to our interests and should not, in my opinion, be undertaken. The mere fact that we can do a thing does not mean that we must, or even should, do that thing."
 
See less See more
1
#2 ·
I take the opposite view and believe we should blame ourselves for hiding our guns for decades afraid of upsetting the public's tender sensibilities.

That which is ordinarily hidden becomes unusual to see while that which is ordinarily seen becomes usual to see.
 
#4 ·
So a guy who is minding his own business isn't helping? Rosa Parks wasnt helping when she sat in the front of the bus I suppose. :rolleyes:

I will say that having a sling would have made more sense though.
 
#7 ·
So Mike, when elections roll around again do you think the vendors who had customers scared off are going to vote for the pro 2A candidates or against them? If they are inclined to contribute to a campaign will it be for folks that want to ban such behavior or that promote it? And why are they going to do it?

I think I already know the answers to those questions but would like to hear your opinions.
 
#27 ·
I don't know that behaviors one way or the other formulate new opinions in the otherwise disinterested so much as reinforce ones already held. I do know that those seeking power play to the fears of the majority of their constituencies, as do those seeking hang on to the power they already have. Clearly, I believe that that little if any good comes of behavior demonstrated in the OP.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AzQkr
#11 ·
As a musician, there is a saying I like, "A gentleman is someone who can play the accordion, but chooses not to in polite company." I would paraphrase that as, "A gentleman is someone who can OC an AR, but but chooses not to in polite company."

I think with rights come responsibilities. People should be glad we have the right to carry an AR in public. But they should only do it when it is appropriate. And if it is causing more problems than it could potentially solve, it is not appropriate. People who don't care what other people think have set themselves up for being people who don't care what they think.

When we have VCDL Lobby Day, we have a lot of people show up OC'ing ARs. Hundreds of people show up OC'ing some kind of gun. But it is a political action event and everyone knows we are going to do it, including the Capital Police. Those OC'ers get their pictures in the media and make their point. I happen to know those same people do not OC ARs and a regular basis.

People who push their rights to the limits inappropriately will find their rights more limited. You don't "educate" the public by frightening them.
 
#22 ·
I have mixed feelings about this but am generally on the same page as are you. I openly carried on a daily basis for 7 1/2 years, but returned to concealed carry at the beginning of 2015 for what I believe are solid reasons. I have never OC'd a long gun but can certainly see times and situations where I would. Open chaos, the aftermath of a hurricane or tornado, or active civil unrest accompanied by looting are excellent reasons, in my opinion. But in times of pleasant civility, as is nearly always, I see no reason for myself to do this. My sidearm is my constant companion everyday so when times are normal, I suspect, and hope, that would be all I might need.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Risasi
#12 ·
Justice Scalia was a brilliant thinker and had a grasp of nuances and intentions of the founding fathers far beyond most. His opinions of 2A were elaborated in cited detail after cited detail. He is the reason that the the highest court in the land ruled that 2A is an individual right. Scalia also led the majority opinion that 2A rights are not unlimited. Who is going to say Justice Scalia was not a "real" supporter of 2A. Or that he was not capable of fully understanding the intent of the founding fathers?

Those that have built their entire foundation of 2A belief around the concept that any "limitation" is a constitutional infringement, would have a eclipse the brilliant 2A opinion written by Scalia. Limitations on 2A are not unconstitutional. The issue for congress is trying to guess which ones are and which ones aren't. After which some lawsuit will make it to SCOTUS for them to make a little more clear what is a limitation vs what is an infringement.
 
#17 ·
I rarely wear socks in the nicer months. But then I also rarely wear "sneakers". My much preferred footwear is boat shoes, leather in particular. Such shoes are designed nor meant to be worn with socks and would look rather silly with socks and shorts. On the other hand, I have been known to wear boat shoes and socks with long pants for dinner when on a cruise.
 
#16 ·
My first reaction is what is the "context"? Was this some sort of shooting/firearm event and the picture is being taken out of context? I did find a reddit post of this image stating this was taken at a farmer's market. If so, then it is as Mike suggested. I'm conflicted, I feel that gun owners are being made to feel "guilty" for owning/displaying guns and that we need more instances of guns being lawfully/safely displayed in public to counter that trend. However, this guy (if it is as stated) is a tool. It would be one thing if he had an "appropriate" AR slung across his back. It would still be overkill, but not to such an extent. But, no, this guy has to have his bi-pod, single point sling and a scope appropriate for very long range engagements. It's not even applicable to self-defense in a public space (IMO).
 
#23 ·
In my not so humble and most likely not to be popular opinion these kinds of threads in many gun forums is the gun community's version of .....

My Gawd! Blood will run in the streets!

except the "blood" will be even more restrictions on the right to bear arms.

Why would anyone be surprised when the public is unnerved by seeing a gun when those in the gun community, the supposed supporters of the right to bear arms, have avoided open carry in exchange for the government permitted privilege of keeping their guns carefully hidden worried that the public might notice?

Yeah I know my views and opinions in regards to this issue are not considered acceptable by many but then concealed means concealed might allow gun carriers to "fit in" and avoid being considered unacceptable by the public but it doesn't help the right to bear arms become seen as acceptable by the public simply because the public isn't seeing it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Havok
#28 ·
I find that farmer's market guy as intimidating as I'd find this guy at the farmer's market:

Uniform Soldier Ballistic vest Military uniform Police officer



I tend along the same lines of thought as SouthernBoyVA, jmf552 and OldChap. Much of this is context and geography specific. And the media pounces on incidents like this to nationalize it in the public consciousness. Just because I see "eevvillll black rifle" I don't instantly think bad guy/MWAG. I'm not exactly against this guy, but I do also think he probably isn't helping the situation. When I see a MWAG I'm looking for other cues too; body language, dressed all in black, 17-25 year old male (if white is he a ******* or does he look like some nutball soiboi hopped up on meds?), tattoos and what kind, is he carrying it in his hands or is it slung. Single point sling would also make me more nervous.
Even this guy if he'd just slung it on a two-point across his back would appear much less menacing. (Out of morbid curiosity I'd also like to know how sheeple react to a guy with a lever rifle. But it's always an AR... :tired: )


In the Midwest five to ten years ago...I'm talking my stomping grounds, Iowa, Missouri, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, rural Colorado and rural AZ at most he would maybe get a side-eye. I'm guessing the more urban you get or the further east you go the more people will freak out. So while I agree with Mike that this example isn't really helping, I do also see how the common non-gun owner is become fearful of situations when firearms are introduced and there is no inherent danger and they didn't used to be that way.

I don't know what the real answer is, but I don't believe it's banning OC and we still as a group could learn something from the anti's and support our own.

Perhaps just better etiquette? The next question is how do we get that done? Best I can tell we probably added 15-20 million new gun owners and perhaps 30-40 million firearms during Obama's regime. The one thing that really freaked me out was many new gun owners asking me for advice weren't also getting training and didn't necessarily grow up around guns or hunting either. The lamestream says our numbers are dwindling but I don't believe it. I couldn't believe the number of new gun owners I personally knew during those years.
 
#31 ·
@Mike1956, thanks for providing the link. Excellently crafted article with an opinion I wholeheartedly support. What I do not get is why some people do not get it.
 
#37 ·
More opinion that is likely to not be popular.......

First of all it is the Bill of Rights.... not the Bill of Needs according to my decision on what you need and what you don't need.

Secondly perhaps in the realm of rights it is more important to do something because you can when folks are telling you you shouldn't.

And third Rosa Parks didn't need to be carrying a gun. Her skin color and all the social negativity associated with that skin color in those days was similar to a gun owner openly carrying a gun today. And, again in my opinion, the black folks who tugged at Rosa's dress urging her to sit down and shut up because she is going to cause more trouble for her people are similar to the gun owners who tell open carriers to shut up, sit down, don't cause a scene or they are going to cause more trouble for gun owners.

But after a lot of societal growing pains those who tugged at her dress, called her names, joined with the whites in insulting her, and were convinced no good could come of such a public display suddenly were proud to sit at the front of the bus because of Rosa's success.

Not all black people supported Rosa and some opposed her but the movement she started endured and was successful in gaining respect and acceptance of civil rights. I can only hope such will be the case with open carry and the right to bear arms. But one thing I do know..... at least Rosa had the courage to try.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Poorly and M1911A1
#41 ·
One can have the courage to try without making a spectacle...A 1911 riding on a persons hip in a nice holster is a far cry
from walking around with AR,with a bi pod mounted and what looks to be a 6X rifle scope....Base on his equipment he was making
a statement.....I wonder if he had his day interrupted by police when someone called him in?
 
#43 ·
Rosa Parks was a person in a different era than now without the history of multiple shootings. She did not represent an immediate physical threat to those around her as some would interpret this man's behavior. I am not at all saying he represented an immediate threat to anyone....a comment from another person with his mindset seemed to be that these actions were an attempt to "educate people" about the right to bear arms. Try educating someone who does not want to be educated....i.e. Try teaching a turtle to sit up and beg for treats. I am pretty sure that many people have made up their minds about people who carry guns and they don't want to be educated. As an example, my wife has an acquaintance who simply is afraid of guns....even those lying on a counter and can't stand to be in the same room. I have no idea where her fear comes from. There is no real positive goal here for her. I think this is an important task though, but needs to be undertaken quietly on an individual, face to face conversation over time.
 
#53 ·
My last comment on this because I truly believe this is actually another useless thread either endorsing or bashing open carry.

I have observed people in America for 7 decades, 2 centuries, and 2 millenniums. Here we are 243 years downstream and I believe we still do not really understand what it means to be free.

Freedom means no one has to seek out your approval for doing something that is not restricted by law. Freedom means some people will say and do things you don't like. Some people will order their steak well done, or rare, or their ice cream chocolate or vanilla. Some people will just rub your fur the wrong way. The response usually flows along the lines of, "Well if they had good taste, or common sense, or if they just understood things like I do, or saw the reality of things the way I see them, they would restrain themselves - as I do."

Thank the good Lord above those who founded this country didn't believe that to be necessary. I believe freedom, real freedom as outlined in the Constitution (and a book we cannot discuss), is a lot more complicated than we imagine. We honestly think everyone should think and believe and say and act and dream as we do. We ridicule and scorn those who do not. With every word we only prove the assertion again and again that we do not really know what it means to be free in America.

You don't have to eat what I eat, or go to the same church, or not go at all, or wear socks with your sandals, barefoot in your loafers, or own a Sig instead of a Glock, or carry OWB, IWB, AIWB, or Mexican even. You and I can be as different as the Sun and the Moon, yet freedom means we must learn to respect one another as Americans. When our fur gets rubbed the wrong way, maybe we should just be thankful that we are all Americans and celebrate the reality that we are free.

Pardon my soapbox, but if we are going to lose this precious freedom we all cherish, it will be partly because we have lost respect for those who are not like us in every way.

Now back to your regularly scheduled argument.
 
#55 ·
My last comment on this because I truly believe this is actually another useless thread either endorsing or bashing open carry.

I have observed people in America for 7 decades, 2 centuries, and 2 millenniums. Here we are 243 years downstream and I believe we still do not really understand what it means to be free.

Freedom means no one has to seek out your approval for doing something that is not restricted by law. Freedom means some people will say and do things you don't like. Some people will order their steak well done, or rare, or their ice cream chocolate or vanilla. Some people will just rub your fur the wrong way. The response usually flows along the lines of, "Well if they had good taste, or common sense, or if they just understood things like I do, or saw the reality of things the way I see them, they would restrain themselves - as I do."

Thank the good Lord above those who founded this country didn't believe that to be necessary. I believe freedom, real freedom as outlined in the Constitution (and a book we cannot discuss), is a lot more complicated than we imagine. We honestly think everyone should think and believe and say and act and dream as we do. We ridicule and scorn those who do not. With every word we only prove the assertion again and again that we do not really know what it means to be free in America.

You don't have to eat what I eat, or go to the same church, or not go at all, or wear socks with your sandals, barefoot in your loafers, or own a Sig instead of a Glock, or carry OWB, IWB, AIWB, or Mexican even. You and I can be as different as the Sun and the Moon, yet freedom means we must learn to respect one another as Americans. When our fur gets rubbed the wrong way, maybe we should just be thankful that we are all Americans and celebrate the reality that we are free.

Pardon my soapbox, but if we are going to lose this precious freedom we all cherish, it will be partly because we have lost respect for those who are not like us in every way.

Now back to your regularly scheduled argument.
Followed by six paragraphs. Go ahead and take the last word.
 
#59 ·
It is the Bill of Rights not the Bill of Needs according to what someone else thinks other people don't need.
 
#61 ·
View attachment 301732


We are not on the same team, I disagree with your actions entirely, and believe you are causing gun rights in general irreparable harm.

The views expressed in this essay mirror my own:

https://tinkertalksguns.wordpress.c...8inOgGFCUuieEkJQ3cKo6fVk1BBluwEqHp9JNZ7m9NjZg

"Our 2nd Amendment rights are under an exceptionally high level of threat right now, and we are very likely to lose some of our rights. When we do I will blame this person and persons like him before I blame Democrats, ‘sheeple’ etc., because he should know better. Adults are supposed to assess the likely effects of their actions and work towards their desired outcome. Actions like this are counter to our interests and should not, in my opinion, be undertaken. The mere fact that we can do a thing does not mean that we must, or even should, do that thing."
I just saw this thread and didn't read any of the ensuing 4 pages. Don't need to. I agree completely with Mike.
 
#192 ·
You never need to read these open carry threads. They’re the same cast of characters acting like OC rights are equal to human civil rights, with people bringing in historical civil rights heroes like Rosa Parks.

What these threads have taught me is who I believe has a logical thought process, and who seems to be an emotional wreck on the issue. It can serve to expand your ignore list...
 
#63 ·
View attachment 301732


We are not on the same team, I disagree with your actions entirely, and believe you are causing gun rights in general irreparable harm.

The views expressed in this essay mirror my own:

https://tinkertalksguns.wordpress.c...8inOgGFCUuieEkJQ3cKo6fVk1BBluwEqHp9JNZ7m9NjZg

"Our 2nd Amendment rights are under an exceptionally high level of threat right now, and we are very likely to lose some of our rights. When we do I will blame this person and persons like him before I blame Democrats, ‘sheeple’ etc., because he should know better. Adults are supposed to assess the likely effects of their actions and work towards their desired outcome. Actions like this are counter to our interests and should not, in my opinion, be undertaken. The mere fact that we can do a thing does not mean that we must, or even should, do that thing."
Awful arrogant of the guy writing to assume all this "we" crap,like I am somehow thinking every way he is because I own and carry guns. What an idiot to blame another gun owner before he blames people who want us disarmed. How does someone this afraid get through day to day living without a meltdown? By the way we don't have any such thing as "second amendment rights", we have God given rights that the Government is prohibited from restricting, maybe he should read more and worry less.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top