If You Are Like This Guy, You Are Not Helping...

If You Are Like This Guy, You Are Not Helping...

This is a discussion on If You Are Like This Guy, You Are Not Helping... within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; We are not on the same team, I disagree with your actions entirely, and believe you are causing gun rights in general irreparable harm. The ...

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  1. #1
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    If You Are Like This Guy, You Are Not Helping...

    If You Are Like This Guy, You Are Not Helping...-oc-alexandria-virginia.jpg


    We are not on the same team, I disagree with your actions entirely, and believe you are causing gun rights in general irreparable harm.

    The views expressed in this essay mirror my own:

    https://tinkertalksguns.wordpress.co...qHp9JNZ7m9NjZg

    "Our 2nd Amendment rights are under an exceptionally high level of threat right now, and we are very likely to lose some of our rights. When we do I will blame this person and persons like him before I blame Democrats, ‘sheeple’ etc., because he should know better. Adults are supposed to assess the likely effects of their actions and work towards their desired outcome. Actions like this are counter to our interests and should not, in my opinion, be undertaken. The mere fact that we can do a thing does not mean that we must, or even should, do that thing."
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

    "Slaves, enjoy your freedom." Chuck Klosterman

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    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    I take the opposite view and believe we should blame ourselves for hiding our guns for decades afraid of upsetting the public's tender sensibilities.

    That which is ordinarily hidden becomes unusual to see while that which is ordinarily seen becomes usual to see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    I take the opposite view and believe we should blame ourselves for hiding our guns for decades afraid of upsetting the public's tender sensibilities.

    That which is ordinarily hidden becomes unusual to see while that which is ordinarily seen becomes usual to see.
    Yes, we hold opposite views here.
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    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    So a guy who is minding his own business isn't helping? Rosa Parks wasnt helping when she sat in the front of the bus I suppose.

    I will say that having a sling would have made more sense though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    So a guy who is minding his own business isn't helping? Rosa Parks wasnt helping when she sat in the front of the bus I suppose.

    I will say that having a sling would have made more sense though.

    I see a single point ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    So a guy who is minding his own business isn't helping? Rosa Parks wasnt helping when she sat in the front of the bus I suppose.

    I will say that having a sling would have made more sense though.
    The guy was making his agenda everyone else's business. Big difference, bad comparison.
    "Stop being dangerous, and you become edible." William Aprill

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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    So Mike, when elections roll around again do you think the vendors who had customers scared off are going to vote for the pro 2A candidates or against them? If they are inclined to contribute to a campaign will it be for folks that want to ban such behavior or that promote it? And why are they going to do it?

    I think I already know the answers to those questions but would like to hear your opinions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    I take the opposite view and believe we should blame ourselves for hiding our guns for decades afraid of upsetting the public's tender sensibilities.

    That which is ordinarily hidden becomes unusual to see while that which is ordinarily seen becomes usual to see.
    For decades we didn't have mass shootings. When I was growing up, seeing a rifle in a gun rack of a pickup truck at a high school didn't get a second glance. We also didn't lock our house doors. But those rifles started disappearing from unlocked trucks as petty crime picked up, and people began to lock doors as burglaries and home invasions became more common.

    The public psyche has changed in direct response to the crimes so publicly broadcast over the airwaves and internet and the remaining print media. A man carrying a semi-auto rifle to a farmer's market 30 or even 20 years ago might not have been of concern. But now, a man at a farmer's market with an evil black assault weapon of war rifle immediately puts fear into a great many Americans, like it or not. I would not blame gun owners for this change as much as I would the evolving societal norms as a result of bad things happening to them over extended periods of time.

    The gun owner exercising his constitutional rights to open carry of his rifle in the environment of a farmer's market only exacerbates and flames the fires of fear for the general population. That geni is out of the bottle and not going back in.
    "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." Alexander Hamilton

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    The bi pod is a nice touch....This is the kind of stuff that will lead to every method of carry being banned at more and more
    places
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    The guy was making his agenda everyone else's business. Big difference, bad comparison.
    Uhhmmm...I beg to differ my friend. Rosa Parks was making her agenda everyone else's business. I lived through that era.

    And by the way. The absolute BEST method to achieve the ultimate goal of abolishing the 2nd Amendment is to get the house divided. United we stand. Divided we fall.

    I just want to know when we're going to get after all those idiots who insist on speaking their minds. After all, surely that isn't what the 1st Amendment guarantees, is it?

    Freedom is a tough thing to hang onto.
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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    As a musician, there is a saying I like, "A gentleman is someone who can play the accordion, but chooses not to in polite company." I would paraphrase that as, "A gentleman is someone who can OC an AR, but but chooses not to in polite company."

    I think with rights come responsibilities. People should be glad we have the right to carry an AR in public. But they should only do it when it is appropriate. And if it is causing more problems than it could potentially solve, it is not appropriate. People who don't care what other people think have set themselves up for being people who don't care what they think.

    When we have VCDL Lobby Day, we have a lot of people show up OC'ing ARs. Hundreds of people show up OC'ing some kind of gun. But it is a political action event and everyone knows we are going to do it, including the Capital Police. Those OC'ers get their pictures in the media and make their point. I happen to know those same people do not OC ARs and a regular basis.

    People who push their rights to the limits inappropriately will find their rights more limited. You don't "educate" the public by frightening them.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

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    Justice Scalia was a brilliant thinker and had a grasp of nuances and intentions of the founding fathers far beyond most. His opinions of 2A were elaborated in cited detail after cited detail. He is the reason that the the highest court in the land ruled that 2A is an individual right. Scalia also led the majority opinion that 2A rights are not unlimited. Who is going to say Justice Scalia was not a "real" supporter of 2A. Or that he was not capable of fully understanding the intent of the founding fathers?

    Those that have built their entire foundation of 2A belief around the concept that any "limitation" is a constitutional infringement, would have a eclipse the brilliant 2A opinion written by Scalia. Limitations on 2A are not unconstitutional. The issue for congress is trying to guess which ones are and which ones aren't. After which some lawsuit will make it to SCOTUS for them to make a little more clear what is a limitation vs what is an infringement.

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  15. #14
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    The guy was making his agenda everyone else's business. Big difference, bad comparison.
    To be honest, Im just tired of people thinking they are in a position to decide for everyone what is or isn't "helping". You dont want to make waves. People are getting fed up with that strategy that has been a failure for forever. Like I said yesterday, Im sure there are plenty of people who thought Rosa Parks should just keep quiet and ride in the back, but later enjoyed the freedom to ride in the front.
    Bikenut, OldChap and gatorbait51 like this.
    We get the government we deserve.

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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    To be honest, Im just tired of people thinking they are in a position to decide for everyone what is or isn't "helping". You dont want to make waves. People are getting fed up with that strategy that has been a failure for forever. Like I said yesterday, Im sure there are plenty of people who thought Rosa Parks should just keep quiet and ride in the back, but later enjoyed the freedom to ride in the front.
    The Rosa Parks thing is an apples and oranges comparison. Sometimes people who are suggesting what isn't helping are just stating the obvious.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

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