CA bans privately run prisons, including ICE facilities. - Page 2

CA bans privately run prisons, including ICE facilities.

This is a discussion on CA bans privately run prisons, including ICE facilities. within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; We outsource everything else in this country. Why not outsource the prison system? I'll bet China would incarcerate our prisoners a hell of a lot ...

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Thread: CA bans privately run prisons, including ICE facilities.

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array HotBrass45's Avatar
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    We outsource everything else in this country. Why not outsource the prison system? I'll bet China would incarcerate our prisoners a hell of a lot cheaper than we can. Then when they're released, they can just hop on a freighter bound for Walmart USA
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    I try to avoid prisons altogether. Who owns/runs it is irrelevant.
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  3. #18
    Member Array mrtimm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    The CA legislature has just passed a bill the gov. is expected to sign, banning private prison facilities. This would appear to include ICE's two largest detention facilities in the state. So basically they have already told the feds they can't use state and local jails for detention and now they are telling them they can't have their own facilities if they outsource the management of them to private contractors. I'm thinkin' this one winds up in the courts over the Supremacy Clause.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...mmigration-ice
    Good! Get profit out of justice. Enforce the laws, but let's not have a financial incentive to put people in jail.

    The more people in jail, the more profit for these companies. The more profit for the companies, the more money they spend getting the wrong people elected.

    As I said, let's put the people we need to put in jail, in jail. However, let's not make it profitable for private companies.

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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    I don't think the federal government much cares what restrictions CA puts on itself, or cares how CA thinks a federal facility should be run.
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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array StormRhydr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I try to avoid prisons altogether. Who owns/runs it is irrelevant.

    Matt Dillion, & Ben Cartwright tried that approach too... it didn’t work out so well for either of them. At least in the television shows.

    Both shows had episodes of the lead characters being thrown into for profit, private prisons. Essentially railroaded.

    There were lots of valid reasons for those episodes as our nations history shows.

  7. #21
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    Our prison system is totally broken. Europe is actually a better system, from what I understand. They (a few nations at least) focus on rehabilitation. We focus on no trouble. As a result, our education system is a training ground for future super criminals. They learn to expand and possibly do better next time so they don't get caught.
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array dangerranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post
    I don't think the federal government much cares what restrictions CA puts on itself, or cares how CA thinks a federal facility should be run.
    Most federal inmates in CA are held in state and county lockups. The FED's just rent beds.The two Federal Prisons I know of are Privately owned. Because the State refused to build new facility's, and kept reducing the amount of beds available to be leased or rented.
    The state instead of building new prisons has just dumped thousands of criminals on the street, and the rest of those that could not be dumped, are sent back to already overcrowded county jails.
    This is just a game they play with the Fed's, CA has made everything a crime, and now has judges forcing them to release or build new prisons. This is just CA getting back at the Feds.

    As far as the privately run prisons go they are less crowded and kept in better condition than the state run facility's. DR
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  9. #23
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    It is astounding that a state believes it can dictate terms of ownership of any property in that state and use of said property in that state, assuming it met full legal conditions initially. It is beyond appalling in my opinion, and I would hope the Feds tell California to go to hell. Prisons are a darn good resource to build a community around, such as Canon City Colorado. Many years ago the residents voted to solicit a territorial prison rather than a college, and that decision has paid dividends since 1871.

    The Colorado State Penitentiary had its inception on January 7, 1868, when the Territorial Legislature declared that such an institution should be established in Colorado at Canon City for the protection of society against offenders of the law. Thomas Macon of Canon City, an attorney who had reached the west only a short time before, had been elected to the Territorial Legislature; and it was he, who spear- headed the drive to locate the prison in Canon City. His support of Denver to receive designation as the state capital instead of Golden had earned him the backing of a sufficient number of legislators from the northern part of the state to have Canon City selected as the prison site.

    Federal authorities built the first cell house in the middle of a twenty-five acre site selected for this purpose. Jonathan Draper, one of the earliest settlers of Fremont County, was the donor of the land that became the prison site. The first building was constructed of native stone which was quarried on the site. It contained only forty-two cells which soon filled up with frontier ruffians.
    The valley has 16 prisons:

    A town in the middle of nowhere with 36,000 souls and 13 prisons, one of which is Supermax, the new ‘Alcatraz’ of America. A prison town where even those living on the outside live on the inside. A journey into what the future might hold.
    Steady employment opportunities, solid payroll streams injecting money into the community. What is not to like?

    The idea boggles the mind. When you start to remember every news item you’ve seen over the decades about prison overcrowding — and realize that each year it’s getting worse — that boggle becomes a chill. Sixteen percent of Canon City’s population are prisoners.
    Bad people need to be somewhere. Inside the walls.

    I hope Barr tells California to stuff it.
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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Psycho41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMinSC View Post
    Yet some of the worst run prisons in the nation are gov't operated and not privately operated. Epstein's jail for instance where the warden was merely transferred to be a problem at another jail. The private sector can generally be counted upon to do a better job of most anything than gov't can. Private school vs public school, VA vs private hospital, etc.
    I generally agree with you. A for profit company has a profit incentive to make sure things are run correctly. If there are abuses or other shenanigans going on it will jeopardize the business. That's not to say those things don't happen (typically when they are in bed with the gov't agencies that oversee them). But, it is more incentive than exists for government agencies running the facilities. They have zero incentive to run the facilities efficiently and end up wasting our tax dollars. I would be interested to see if there is any data on differences in treatment of prisoners between Gov't/Private facilities.

    However, unlike your example of schools and hospitals, prisons will never see the same differentiation because being incarcerated isn't something people seeks out for themselves. So, the process will always be "run" by the government along with the corruption and graft that goes along with it.
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  11. #25
    Member Array tnsoldier4fun's Avatar
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    I would love to see CA try to shut down those private run Fed prisons. What are they going to do? Even if a state court judge ruled that the prison had to shut down, is the state going to send in state law-enforcement to try to take it over if they didn't? I think it would be hilarious to see this play out.

  12. #26
    Senior Member Array cbp210's Avatar
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    Sounds like the Federal Government needs to move those operations in neighboring States and create jobs over there.

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array The Fish's Avatar
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    My opinion,without getting into the immigration issue is that facilities like these should never be owned by a profit making entity.
    Companies have only one responsibility...to maximize profits to shareholders.
    Making the most money can easily conflict with the correct purposes of prisons etc.
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  14. #28
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    Companies have only one responsibility...to maximize profits to shareholders.


    That is typically only one responsibility of many.

    Of course, to get to your answer you must ignore a robust history of graft and corruption in the government run penal systems.

    Pick your poison.

    I think I'd prefer a Publicly Traded company with the full disclosures required thereunder (SEC, State, Local and Federal filings as required thereunder with oversight as required) to a opaque system run by governments less inclined to share the full picture in complete light.
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  15. #29
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fish View Post
    My opinion,without getting into the immigration issue is that facilities like these should never be owned by a profit making entity.
    Companies have only one responsibility...to maximize profits to shareholders.
    Making the most money can easily conflict with the correct purposes of prisons etc.
    But if you endanger the contract you anger your shareholders.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fish View Post
    My opinion,without getting into the immigration issue is that facilities like these should never be owned by a profit making entity.
    Companies have only one responsibility...to maximize profits to shareholders.
    Making the most money can easily conflict with the correct purposes of prisons etc.
    You clearly haven't any experience with a government run facility. My experience is the government tends to do things much less efficiently than private industry, and that is from the perspective of looking from the inside out for almost 40 years.
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