Recognizing Police Legitimacy - Page 2

Recognizing Police Legitimacy

This is a discussion on Recognizing Police Legitimacy within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA Have to ask. Why would police be stopping innocent people? At the minimum, the police must have RAS before they can ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    Have to ask. Why would police be stopping innocent people? At the minimum, the police must have RAS before they can stop someone. And if there is RAS, in their eyes the person(s) stopped would not be innocent. This is an honest question for my own edification and is not meant or intended to become argumentative.
    RAS? You mean probable cause? The concept is that people are innocent until proven guilty. Most LE stops are investigative in nature. Even if you are given a citation you get your day in court.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    I think the police undercut their own perceived authority when there are stories of them abusing their authority so regularly. Police, as a profession, need to understand that corruption, excessive use of force and general bad attitude toward citizens will erode the perceived authority of all cops in the country. The linked story is a fairly mundane example. But minorities have excused their running from police by citing situations where cops have shot minorities when they were pulled over. They claim they were in fear for their lives. No less a source as National Geographic had an article on minorities' fear of being pulled over by the police. A lot of that may be BS, but the police have to realize if they don't stay squeaky clean on their use of authority, the perception of that authority will naturally erode.

    Look at Ferguson. That cop was justified and I'm glad he was not prosecuted. But he could have handled that situation a lot better. The fact that he screwed it up so badly caused riots and contributed to eroding the perception of the police for years to come.

    Look at the common wisdom on what a concealed carrier should do if they are involved in an SD shooting. "Don't talk to police!" And that is good advice. It would be nice if the police would be understanding and try to do the right thing. But no, anything you say will be used to try to destroy your SD claim, so you shut up until your lawyer gets there, just like a criminal would do. And keep in mind, we all know that when gun confiscations happen, it will be "officer friendly" coming to take them, unless it is a SWAT team.

    I have great appreciation for police, but I see them make themselves the enemy all the time. They need to remember who they work for.
    The cops have been well aware of that since at least the 1960's. When you consider that in this country LEO's have millions of citizen contacts every day it is not as bad as some would make it.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    Have to ask. Why would police be stopping innocent people?
    Profiling.

    At the minimum, the police must have RAS before they can stop someone. And if there is RAS, in their eyes the person(s) stopped would not be innocent. This is an honest question for my own edification and is not meant or intended to become argumentative.
    A few years back, the wife and I had a white Nissan Altima sedan. Nice car; leather interior, Bose sound system, great road trip machine.

    BUT...

    No matter where I traveled, I was getting pulled over. Texas, New Mexico, Colorado. Always for some BS reason. example: between Lubbock and Amarillio, pulled over by a local yokel: "I clocked you going 57 in a 55 zone." Never got a single ticket, though.

    I suspect that Nissan fit a LOT of descriptions, so I must have looked suspicious.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    I agree. And the revenue producing (which I think is a government scam) can be done by machine now. Some cities have automated red light enforcement and speeding. The system detects the offense, takes a picture of your car and license plate and you get the ticket in the mail.

    And it's been around for a while, tried and true. I got a speeding ticket in DC several years ago. It just came in the mail with a picture of the rental car I was driving. Systems like that can give out a lot more tickets and there is no cop needed. It can free cops up to actually catch criminals.
    Speaking of revenue producing, every time I take E470 (toll road - no toll booths) in the Denver area, I get a letter DEMANDING that I open the envelope IMMEDIATELY and pay the toll IMMEDIATELY even though it's a miniscule $5. Not to mention the threats if I don't pay up. It's interesting how entities demand payment right away but good luck getting a refund right away if it turns out that you overpaid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Red View Post
    Profiling.



    A few years back, the wife and I had a white Nissan Altima sedan. Nice car; leather interior, Bose sound system, great road trip machine.

    BUT...

    No matter where I traveled, I was getting pulled over. Texas, New Mexico, Colorado. Always for some BS reason. example: between Lubbock and Amarillio, pulled over by a local yokel: "I clocked you going 57 in a 55 zone." Never got a single ticket, though.

    I suspect that Nissan fit a LOT of descriptions, so I must have looked suspicious.
    Maybe he/she/it doesn't like you driving a foreign car.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NECCdude View Post
    Maybe he/she/it doesn't like you driving a foreign car.
    He/she/it doesn't need to like what I drive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NECCdude View Post
    Speaking of revenue producing, every time I take E470 (toll road - no toll booths) in the Denver area, I get a letter DEMANDING that I open the envelope IMMEDIATELY and pay the toll IMMEDIATELY even though it's a miniscule $5. Not to mention the threats if I don't pay up. It's interesting how entities demand payment right away but good luck getting a refund right away if it turns out that you overpaid.
    So, what does one do with such an envelope?

    Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Red View Post
    Profiling.



    A few years back, the wife and I had a white Nissan Altima sedan. Nice car; leather interior, Bose sound system, great road trip machine.

    BUT...

    No matter where I traveled, I was getting pulled over. Texas, New Mexico, Colorado. Always for some BS reason. example: between Lubbock and Amarillio, pulled over by a local yokel: "I clocked you going 57 in a 55 zone." Never got a single ticket, though.

    I suspect that Nissan fit a LOT of descriptions, so I must have looked suspicious.
    The Altima is a preferred vehicle in some groups.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimBob View Post
    So, what does one do with such an envelope?
    One gets an EZ Pass scanner and puts it in one's windshield and never worries about it again. (As long as one keeps enough money in the EZ Pay account)

  11. #25
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    Why should it matter how much is owed?
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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    The Altima is a preferred vehicle in some groups.
    What groups would those be?

    Another time, in a heavy downpour, a local yokel in Colorado pulled me over. I let him stand in the rain as he scrutinized my "papers" and went back to his cruiser to check me out. When he couldn't find anything, he finally said, "Your left brake light isn't working. Get it fixed!" But no citation. When the rain stopped, I pulled over and checked. It was working perfectly.

    I traded that Altima in 2011. Haven't had a conversation with a cop (other then my brothers) since then.
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  13. #27
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    [QUOTE=Texas Red;7808618

    Another time, in a heavy downpour, a local yokel in Colorado pulled me over.

    He must have been just out of the academy
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by flh View Post
    He must have been just out of the academy
    He was a young fella, so it could be.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

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    They would stand where they wanted; get in and out of the car when they wanted; yell, scream, and curse at the officers when they wanted. They would attempt to ridicule and intimidate the officers; even going so far as to give the officers direct and repeated orders to “back up!” The amount of confidence this couple displayed was extraordinary.

    Predictably, the couple was arrested. They resisted. They were forced into handcuffs. They hired a lawyer.

    When the City of Denver agreed to pay $500,000 to avoid the lawsuit, the president of the Denver police union expressed concern that individuals stopped for routine traffic offenses will believe that they don’t have to comply with police orders. That’s a legitimate concern. But what about the police?
    Then the city of Denver has partnered with 2 dolts, when they should have thrown the book at them.
    America has become silly, and this case tends to show that; you should never buckle into tyrants. No matter who they are, and that couple is a pair of thugs.
    That couple has the confidence of fools, who never see danger coming; and there is a lot of that in America now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    One thing I think the police should get out of the business of is traffic enforcement. The technology exists to do that hands off now, more cost effectively. I think that role really creates a bad image of police and a does not help their relationship with citizens. It makes them seem like tax collectors or moving meter maids, not intrepid crime fighters.
    Most states, correctly, won't allow traffic enforcement without an actual LEO involved. Red light cameras are going the way of the dodo. People don't want technology policing their behavior.
    Last edited by ColoradoDiablo; October 20th, 2019 at 10:45 PM. Reason: Autocorrection Correction!
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