Trump to take action on 3 soldiers accused of war crimes. - Page 2

Trump to take action on 3 soldiers accused of war crimes.

This is a discussion on Trump to take action on 3 soldiers accused of war crimes. within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY It was a good thing that Americans did not see on the news every night what was happening in WW2 ...

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Thread: Trump to take action on 3 soldiers accused of war crimes.

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    It was a good thing that Americans did not see on the news every night what was happening in WW2
    Unlike the Vietnam war where we were watching every evening on the news the horror of war...
    That's not really true.
    During WW2, there was no TV. Instead, we went to the movies. Many went to the movies at least once a week.
    With every movie show, there was a Newsreel. Most of every Newsreel show was about the war. (Of course.)
    We saw "the horrors of war" quite often. I remember them vividly.

    The big difference was both our attitudes and the attitude of the media. We were all pro-war during WW2. We knew that it was a just war.
    We were anti-war during Vietnam because we knew that it was not a just war. Not only that, but we were pretty sure that it was an unwinnable war.

    Our "war crimes" were not terribly important during WW2, because the other side's own war crimes were already well known as being beyond horrible.
    We were fighting the embodiment of evil, bent upon subjugating the entire world and doing horrible things to the people they conquered.
    What were our "war crimes," in relation to that?

    WW2 was indeed horrible.
    But that has to be seen in relation to whom we were fighting.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array OneGunTX's Avatar
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    Here is an idea. Have the "squad" serve on the front lines. I wonder if this would make Liberals rethink going after our military men and women who work in dangerous conditions with imperfect information.
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    I believe it was General Lee that said, when overlooking the carnage at Cold Harbor, "It is good that war is so horrible, lest we grow fond of it".
    I believe it was Sherman who said, "War is hell." Pretty much nailed that idea in three words. To think otherwise is foolish.
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  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1911A1 View Post
    That's not really true.

    Our "war crimes" were not terribly important during WW2, because the other side's own war crimes were already well known as being beyond horrible.
    We were fighting the embodiment of evil, bent upon subjugating the entire world and doing horrible things to the people they conquered.
    What were our "war crimes," in relation to that?

    WW2 was indeed horrible.
    But that has to be seen in relation to whom we were fighting.
    Today what are our "war crimes" as compared to the atrocities perpetrated by the other side.
    We are still fighting the embodiment of evil, hell bent on subjugating the entire world and doing horrible things to the people the conquered.
    Funny how some things never change
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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead1026 View Post
    Second Manassas, I think. Or Fredericksburg.
    I'm pretty sure it was Cold Harbor. The battle was pretty one-sided in favor of the South.
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array dawei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    I believe it was General Lee who said, while overlooking the carnage at Cold Harbor, "It is good that war is so horrible, lest we grow fond of it".
    That was at the Battle of Fredricksburg specifically at the Union assault at Marye's Heights.
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  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    As far as Im concerned, civilian deaths is just a consequence of this type of war. If anyone is looking to hold anyone accountable for those deaths, they should be looking not at our military, but at our government for putting them there.
    Or perhaps hold the Islamists accountable who use woman and children as human shields.
    And set up headquarters in mosques.
    If these people will allow themselves to be used this way, well crap happens.
    I would rather our sons and daughters come home safe than theirs.
    Cold, but thatís how I feel
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    Or perhaps hold the Islamists accountable who use woman and children as human shields.
    And set up headquarters in mosques.
    If these people will allow themselves to be used this way, well crap happens.
    I would rather our sons and daughters come home safe than theirs.
    Cold, but thatís how I feel
    Canít really hold the people accountable for using women and children as shields if they are dead. Good point about the mosques. I didnít really think about that, but that creates complications for us several times since we couldnít go inside.
    We get the government we deserve.

  10. #24
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    These cases are all different. I prefer for the Commander-in-Chief to stay out of prosecutions and to use his power post-conviction if necessary. Wading in beforehand will always have commanders wondering what they should do because he might wade in, etc. Do not take this concern as an endorsement of two of the outcomes or the pending prosecution on the third.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    Canít really hold the people accountable for using women and children as shields if they are dead. Good point about the mosques. I didnít really think about that, but that creates complications for us several times since we couldnít go inside.
    Or drop several MK-82s on them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    Imagine how any of this might play out had it taken place during WWII. We killed a mess of Japanese and Germans, under many conditions and situations and no one seemed to get all broken up and it. But then, in the 1940's, Americans had a lot more common sense and patriotism about the nation and what needed to be done to Japan and Germany.
    And a lot fewer lawyers looking over the shoulders of the combatants.
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  13. #27
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    I'm really happy Trump is correcting these wrongs, because obama's silly ROE made it nearly impossible for our troops to operate, and increased OUR casualties.

    It's righteous and just to war against socialists and communists, but our mistake was doing it in Vietnam instead of here at home. We should've been taking care of all the leftists who, by the mid 60s, had already infiltrated our government, universities, print and broadcast news, and hollywood. The Founders warned us to be vigilant, but we weren't, so now they've infiltrated our public schools and churches, too.

    If it interests you, check out some of the YT videos of Yuri Bezmenov's speeches after he defected to Canada from the Soviet Union. He was a KGB agent whose specialty was cultural subversion, and when he made his university speeches in the early 80s, he said then that the apparatus and process to subvert America was nearly complete- and again that was in the 80s. Essentially everything he said is now reality for us. (The link below is of a full speech, but searching YT results in vids that were broken up to be shorter).

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  14. #28
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    In this country we have a volunteer fighting force, that the vast overwhelming majority of us choose to not participate in. At the same time we love to project our military force all over the world. I got no problem with that but we should give the tiny percentage of our population that actually has to participate in the violence we demand they do, great discretion when things get messy. If we're squeamish maybe we should be more resistant to sending folks all over the world to kill on our behalf. The American population is alot like an anti hunter, who loves a good cheeseburger.
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  15. #29
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    Reference the motorcyclists with no visible weapons, but two were found to be bomb makers?

    How about dry runs? Has anyone heard that statement? Well, that age-old tactic got nipped in the bud, yes?

    Bomb vests were being manufactured in factories in Iran! Just about too heavy to carry easily, walking. But really easy on a 250CC motorbike? Ten lbs, of C4 equivalent, will make quite a mess of sandbags. And the rifle-armed squaddies behind them. And Florida Sandbags from a beach is not the bags of dust they had.

    Two signs 75m away, one in English (Imports!) one in the local language. If you do not stop here, you will be shot!
    The motorcycle itself could be the bomb!

    That Obama edict was mental. Our President now, whatever he does will be at fault!
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  16. #30
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    I don't know enough about the specific instances to make a proper judgement.

    However, having been told what the rules of engagement were, both my cousin and current co-worker, who got out of service 9 and 5 years ago respectively I don't understand how any soldier comes back. The rules under the second President Bush were bad, but not as bad as the Obama rules. The insanity of the rules almost makes it so the rank and file can be charged for doing anything. Basically, they were all potential sacrificial pawns.

    I don't know any active duty people serving now, so I don't know if President Trump has made the situation better or worse for the general troops.

    When I saw Hillary Clinton, blatantly break laws by having a personal e-mail server, and nothing happened, and once again saw the massive hypocrisy of the elected officials vs the peasants (regular citizens) I was disgusted. There are numerous reports of soldiers taking certain actions far less severe than Hillary's actions, which could have led to a breach national security who had long standing repercussions to their careers, and what happened to her? This nations legal system, as mentioned in the Kamala Harris thread, currently is a joke. Some of the reported stories are about young people just making a stupid decision as small as adding a personal e-mail account to a secure phone, or to text someone from a secure phone to a non-secure one, and having been court martialed. As an IT person, I can say what they did was incredibly stupid, and there should have been some consequences. For two of the stories I read, the situation should have been a reprimand and further training. Nothing those two did was on the scale of the private e-mail server that Hillary Clinton had, that was breached.

    I keep bringing that particular situation up, because it falls into my wheelhouse of personal expertise. I cannot understand how people don't get the severity, and the outright gall shown to break laws that were an inconvenience, that one action alone showed. It shows how shallow and self centered Hillary Clinton truly is. She has the same mindset of most criminals. No morality whatsoever has ever been shown by her.

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