Trump to take action on 3 soldiers accused of war crimes.

Trump to take action on 3 soldiers accused of war crimes.

This is a discussion on Trump to take action on 3 soldiers accused of war crimes. within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; I know there are some who believe he should not change the outcome of a Courts Martial. I see their point. But I also believe ...

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Thread: Trump to take action on 3 soldiers accused of war crimes.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    Trump to take action on 3 soldiers accused of war crimes.

    I know there are some who believe he should not change the outcome of a Courts Martial.
    I see their point.
    But I also believe some of these warriors got caught up in unrealistic rules of engagement that were more politically motivated
    than for the safety of our soldiers.
    I am good with this.

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/trump-...ance-gallagher
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    The president cannot change the outcome of a court martial. The president may grant executive clemency (effectively forgiving the remainder of a prison sentence) or the president may grant a pardon (effectively setting aside the conviction and clearing the individual'
    s record for the future).

    In the cases under discussion whatever the president might do will please some people and displease other people.

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    Senior Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    Article says he can dismiss a case or change a sentence.
    Does not have to pardon or commute a sentence for that still shows the accused is guilty.
    Regardless, I am sure most active duty are happier to have a CIC who has their back rather than one who just sacrificed them to the political animal

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    Member Array rotorhead1026's Avatar
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    This came into play regarding Capt. Charles McVeigh of the USS Indianapolis. As much as several presidents, congressmen, and naval officers deplored the guilty verdict, there was and is no way to change it. It's still on his record, along with numerous resolutions from various institutions saying the verdict was unjust.
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    As commander in chief of the armed services and president of the United States, I'm sure somewhere between those two powers he has the capability to resolve any issues these three service members have. Pardon, commute, set aside, something.
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    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    I think its sad that there is even a need for this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    I think its sad that there is even a need for this.
    I don't know what the exact circumstances that brought on charges are, so I cannot say whether the charges are unwarranted. I have no illusion that every last man or woman in the service is of perfect and sterling character.
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    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Imagine how any of this might play out had it taken place during WWII. We killed a mess of Japanese and Germans, under many conditions and situations and no one seemed to get all broken up and it. But then, in the 1940's, Americans had a lot more common sense and patriotism about the nation and what needed to be done to Japan and Germany.
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    Senior Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    Imagine how any of this might play out had it taken place during WWII. We killed a mess of Japanese and Germans, under many conditions and situations and no one seemed to get all broken up and it. But then, in the 1940's, Americans had a lot more common sense and patriotism about the nation and what needed to be done to Japan and Germany.
    It was a good thing that Americans did not see on the news every night what was happening in WW2
    Unlike the Vietnam war where we were watching every evening on the news the horror of war.
    Then again maybe it was not a good thing. I still am not sure how I think about seeing what needs to be done.
    How it can change public opinion.
    War is a horrible thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I don't know what the exact circumstances that brought on charges are, so I cannot say whether the charges are unwarranted. I have no illusion that every last man or woman in the service is of perfect and sterling character.
    I agree with what you say about the character of service members. I only know the stories of two of the three people mentioned, and I dont agree with how they have been treated in these cases, even though I may not think they, or at least one of them was completely in the right.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    Imagine how any of this might play out had it taken place during WWII. We killed a mess of Japanese and Germans, under many conditions and situations and no one seemed to get all broken up and it. But then, in the 1940's, Americans had a lot more common sense and patriotism about the nation and what needed to be done to Japan and Germany.
    War is messy. A lot of people, even some in our military have forgotten that. Just another reason why I think we need to wash our hands of the wars in the middle east.
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    I am actually surprised that there have not been more prosecutions os US service members for illegal behavior on the battlefield. When you are fighting an enemy who hide i among the population the job of rooting them out has high probability that someone is going to be killed who maybe should not have been. In Nam on operations aimed at rooting out the Viet Cong innocent civilians were sometimes killed because of what the GI thought about the victims actions. Those were rarely caused by murderous intent. Whether from a bad decision or erring on the side of keeping safe it happened. I have no doubt that it still happens. Simple fact s that innocent people get killed in wars.

    Should the President intervene? I do not know if he should but I do know he can. if he does, I hope the facts will be considered, and those facts go not just to the incident but also to the facts of how the court martial was conducted. I think that the concept of "beyond a reasonable doubt" can get lost during a court martial because the rules of war and the Uniform Code Of Military Justice very firmly established and often applied severely. In my opinion often too severely applied.
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    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    It was a good thing that Americans did not see on the news every night what was happening in WW2
    Unlike the Vietnam war where we were watching every evening on the news the horror of war.
    Then again maybe it was not a good thing. I still am not sure how I think about seeing what needs to be done.
    How it can change public opinion.
    War is a horrible thing.
    I believe it was General Lee who said, while overlooking the carnage at Cold Harbor, "It is good that war is so horrible, lest we grow fond of it".
    Last edited by SouthernBoyVA; November 4th, 2019 at 05:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    War is messy. A lot of people, even some in our military have forgotten that. Just another reason why I think we need to wash our hands of the wars in the middle east.
    One more reason we should listen to the wisdom of the Founders. Both Washington and Jefferson warned of foreign entanglements. And Jefferson's remarks about this specifically dealt with our involvement with Muslim countries in Africa.
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    Trump to take action on 3 soldiers accused of war crimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    I believe it was General Lee that said, when overlooking the carnage at Cold Harbor, "It is good that war is so horrible, lest we grow fond of it".
    Second Manassas, I think. Or Fredericksburg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    I am actually surprised that there have not been more prosecutions os US service members for illegal behavior on the battlefield. When you are fighting an enemy who hide i among the population the job of rooting them out has high probability that someone is going to be killed who maybe should not have been. In Nam on operations aimed at rooting out the Viet Cong innocent civilians were sometimes killed because of what the GI thought about the victims actions. Those were rarely caused by murderous intent. Whether from a bad decision or erring on the side of keeping safe it happened. I have no doubt that it still happens. Simple fact s that innocent people get killed in wars.

    Should the President intervene? I do not know if he should but I do know he can. if he does, I hope the facts will be considered, and those facts go not just to the incident but also to the facts of how the court martial was conducted. I think that the concept of "beyond a reasonable doubt" can get lost during a court martial because the rules of war and the Uniform Code Of Military Justice very firmly established and often applied severely. In my opinion often too severely applied.
    As far as Im concerned, civilian deaths is just a consequence of this type of war. If anyone is looking to hold anyone accountable for those deaths, they should be looking not at our military, but at our government for putting them there.
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