Gov. Signs Law Ending Death Penalty For Killing Cops Unless It's Premeditated - Page 3

Gov. Signs Law Ending Death Penalty For Killing Cops Unless It's Premeditated

This is a discussion on Gov. Signs Law Ending Death Penalty For Killing Cops Unless It's Premeditated within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY Cops are our first line of defense against evil that preys on citizens. Yes, all life is special but cops ...

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Thread: Gov. Signs Law Ending Death Penalty For Killing Cops Unless It's Premeditated

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    Cops are our first line of defense against evil that preys on citizens.
    Yes, all life is special but cops need to know that we have their backs.
    Death penalty for cop killers is one way.
    In a perfect world, death penalty for all killers.
    Forgive me, but I do believe that our cops and veterans are special.
    They did/do the jobs that most people do not want to do
    We have very different images of what a perfect world looks like.
    Havok likes this.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    We have very different images of what a perfect world looks like.
    Yup'
    Ain't it wonderful how we all have different images of a perfect world, and still most of us can get along with differences of opinion in a civil manner on this forum
    M1911A1 likes this.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1911A1 View Post
    To those of you who took exception to the reasons given in my post about special penalties for killing a cop, I say:
    Please go back and re-read my post more carefully.
    I did not advocate special treatment for cops. I advocated "special treatment" (if you can call it that) for people who kill cops.

    People who kill cops are displaying a complete lack of fear and of any relationship to society, none of which is so necessarily possessed by someone who kills a 50-pound, seven-year-old girl (or any other weak, unarmed, and unprotected civilian) in the heat of the moment.
    If someone can kill a cop, he/she can much more easily kill your daughter, and, in very possible circumstances, no doubt will not hesitate to do so. A cop killer is a much greater danger to society than would be many other types of criminal.
    Amen, brother.
    Cop killers have no fear and I believe are more likely to cause death to civilians more so than other violent criminals who in many cases will coward up in the face of an armed defense.
    Are there some jobs that we hold in a higher esteem than others, sure.
    Is all life special and sacred, you bet.
    G26Raven and M1911A1 like this.

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  5. #34
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoDiablo View Post
    I don't think there should be any more of a penalty for killing a cop as there should be for killing a random person on the street. Cops aren't special, veterans aren't special, and so forth.
    You are entitled to your opinion. Cops are special, whether you like it or not. Your statement proves that. Because you are unwilling to place yourself in danger to help your fellow man or society at large. We must do what we can to protect those who do. If I person will murder a cop they will murder anyone.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

    In a world of snowflakes, be a torch.

  6. #35
    Member Array Cypher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    You are entitled to your opinion. Cops are special, whether you like it or not. Your statement proves that. Because you are unwilling to place yourself in danger to help your fellow man or society at large. We must do what we can to protect those who do. If I person will murder a cop they will murder anyone.
    My point of disagreement is if a person will murder any human being they'll murder any human being
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  7. #36
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    My point of disagreement is if a person will murder any human being they'll murder any human being
    Not necessarily. Many murders are crimes of passion, they were committed in a rage or against a specific target.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

    In a world of snowflakes, be a torch.

  8. #37
    Member Array Cypher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Not necessarily. Many murders are crimes of passion, they were committed in a rage or against a specific target.

    What I said earlier about criminals lacking the ability to consider the long-term consequences of their actions. Is something that I learned in a criminal psychology class but I have no doubt that it's true.

    If it is true death penalty for cop killers is going to have almost no effect.

    And again I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a death penalty for killing a cop. I'm saying that any premeditated murder of any human being should be a capital offense

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnius View Post
    I disagree for a variety of reasons.
    1. Law enforcement are already given a lot of leeway in applying their authority. They should get respect, but not special treatment, in life or in death. For example, LEOSA and its state equivalents should be repealed immediately.

    2. I agree about the death penalty in principle but not in practice. Many innocent people have been railroaded through the justice system. Furthermore, law enforcement and court officials have a case-proven carte blanche to lie, cheat, withhold exculpatory evidence, all without any fear of consequences. The government should not be able to execute a perpetrator who's no longer a threat for the same reason you and I cannot.
    If by perpetrator you mean a murderer, I completely disagree. I am a firm believer that anyone who commits murder, the willful and deliberate taking of life without any justification, should be put to death. I do not like my tax dollars be used to keep them alive and healthy while their victim(s) can no longer breathe. The thought of them continuing to live while those they murder will never see another day is abhorrent to me. The argument that they are no longer a threat does not hold water for the simple fact that the should forgo their right to life for having unjustifiably ended the life of an innocent victim(s).
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    America First!

  10. #39
    Member Array Cypher's Avatar
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    In February of 2018 a CSPD officer named Micah Flick was killed in a shootout while investigating a stolen car.

    The governor ordered Flags lowered to half-staff for a week. His body lay in state in the state Capital. His funeral procession from Denver to Colorado Springs was miles long and people lined the interstate and the bridges to honor him.

    Thousands of people attended his funeral which was live-streamed and broadcast on the local news. As was his wife's moving eulogy.

    In May of 2018 a security guard named Scott Tice was murdered at the Denver Center for the Performing Arts, when he asked homeless vagrant who was out on probation for another charge to leave the facility. The homeless guy cut his throat, stabbed him multiple times and then took the badge off his jacket while he was dying and pinned it to his backpack as a trophy.

    His death didn't even make the news.

    A year after Micah Flick died the local news stations ran stories reflecting on his death and how his wife was doing a year later.

    Scott Tice's family got whatever the workman's comp death benefit is and out of that had to pay for his funeral.

    Again, Tice's death didn't even make the news.

    The guy that killed Micah flick was killed by CSPD on the spot.

    The guy that killed Scott guys got a plea deal. He'll be out in 10 years. By which time I'm sure they will have named a street for Micah Flick.
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    If by perpetrator you mean a murderer, I completely disagree. I am a firm believer that anyone who commits murder, the willful and deliberate taking of life without any justification, should be put to death. I do not like my tax dollars be used to keep them alive and healthy while their victim(s) can no longer breathe. The thought of them continuing to live while those they murder will never see another day is abhorrent to me. The argument that they are no longer a threat does not hold water for the simple fact that the should forgo their right to life for having unjustifiably ended the life of an innocent victim(s).
    I said I kind of agree in principle. Eye for an eye and all that. But I disagree with the practicality of it. I simply don't trust the government to deliver the death penalty. There have been >100 people on death row who were subsequently exonerated. A paper in PNAS I recently read extrapolated that 4% of death row inmates are innocent of the crime. I think that's too much. I would not agree for the government to murder 1 innocent person to inflict vengeance upon 25 others.

    And morally, while I'd like to be high and mighty and promote delivering righteous vengeance upon the wicked, I am not. To quote JRR Tolkien's immortal trilogy: "Many that live deserve death, but many who die deserve life... can you give it to them"? Also, it's an axiom that death penalty is not an effective deterrent for the psychopaths and sociopaths who commit most crimes. If the only benefits of death penalty are revenge and saving money on prison upkeep, I would say that's not enough of a benefit to justify the moral cost.

    Finally, it's about equality. The government should not have any more rights than the citizens. We are allowed to kill in self-defense or defense of others, but not in cold blood for revenge. Yet I can tell you I would be far more lenient on a jury judging an individual who took justice into their own hands, compared to tolerating death penalty imposed by a responsibility-free machine. Maybe if the penalty for any procedural misconduct in a trial would be imposition of the maximum equivalent penalty on every member of the justice system involved... but then I imaging no prosecutor would ever suggest death penalty in the first place.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1911A1 View Post
    The best reasons for a special penalty for killing a cop:
    1. Even in the heat of the moment, the killer had to know that he/she was killing someone who possessed the power and the right to prevent and arrest, and who, presumably, had told the killer to stop what he/she was doing and to submit to the law. In a round-about way, this indicates premeditation.
    2. Every cop is armed, and most are protected by defensive clothing. If a person is willing to kill an armed and prepared cop, what would that person be willing to do to someone who was unarmed and unprepared? The act of killing a cop bespeaks of a special and severe danger to all of society.
    If I wear body armor and carry a gun, and someone is willing to kill me, should they automatically get the death penalty just because of that, when they otherwise wouldn’t?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    You are entitled to your opinion. Cops are special, whether you like it or not. Your statement proves that. Because you are unwilling to place yourself in danger to help your fellow man or society at large. We must do what we can to protect those who do. If I person will murder a cop they will murder anyone.
    We get the government we deserve.

  13. #42
    VIP Member Array ColoradoDiablo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoDiablo View Post
    I don't think there should be any more of a penalty for killing a cop as there should be for killing a random person on the street. Cops aren't special, veterans aren't special, and so forth.
    You are entitled to your opinion. Cops are special, whether you like it or not. Your statement proves that. Because you are unwilling to place yourself in danger to help your fellow man or society at large. We must do what we can to protect those who do. If I person will murder a cop they will murder anyone.
    Are you suggesting that I personally am unwilling to place myself in danger to help my fellow man or society at large?

    I think my close to 28 years of military service and combat deployments and action in several countries says otherwise.

    Cops are not special. They chose a job and get paid for it. Veterans are not special. They too chose a job and got paid for it. I am grateful for cops and veterans but neither is any more special than a teacher, nurse, plumber, trash collector, receptionist, etc. We all breathe the same air, most have families, and most want to live a long life. Any life needlessly cut short is worthy of the same penalty for murder. Special laws meant to elevate and create special classes of persons by way of penalties for crimes against said persons are wrong and do not belong in a just society.
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  14. #43
    VIP Member Array ColoradoDiablo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ButtShot14 View Post
    I did not attempt to insult you. I only likened your post to someone (liberal Democrat) from the great state of Ca. Severe penalties for killing a law officer are a deterrent. Most violent criminals fear life sentences or death penalties they know are coming if they choose to take the life of an officer. This is usually no so in a murder case for a common person, often they can be paroled after serving just a portion of their sentence. Cop killing means life without parole in most cases. Cops put their lives on the line every day. We need to support them. Tomorrow being veterans day I thank you for your many years of service to our great country.
    You attempted to cast aspersions by labeling me and your response above just confirmed it. You know nothing of my politics and belief. You may think you’re able to discern them from my posts but that doesn’t tell you how I voted or what policies I support.

    Your comparison of sentences for cop killing vs normal citizen killing supports my main assertion: no special categories of punishment for special categories of persons. Such things go against the very ideal of treating all under the law equally.

    I don’t need to support cops or anyone else. Not that I don’t. I simply don’t need to. Society will respect or disrespect depending on an individual earning their respect. A job doesn’t it and of itself demand respect. The actual work in the job one actually does is what deserves respect.
    starlights likes this.
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  15. #44
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    Interesting discussion.

    As a combat veteran I have some strong feelings about military service and veterans' issues. As a retired cop I have some strong feelings about police service and related legal issues. As a very conservative citizen of the US I have some strong feelings about any creation of special classes of people with respect to rights, privileges, etc.

    As a general statement, I must take the position that all laws must be applied equally to all people, with no individual or group granted any special status or protections. I would prefer to see the legal system function more like the game "Monopoly", when you land on Boardwalk with a hotel it costs $2000 no matter who you are, otherwise you are out of the game.

    First time offender, minor misdemeanor, probation with conditions. Second offense, similar crime, do the specified jail time for the second crime plus the suspended jail time for the first offense. Third offense, similar crime, triple the specified jail time.

    Any crime committed while on probation or parole, go directly to jail (no bail permitted) and complete the original sentence.

    First time violent offense (without death or serious bodily injury), one year in a disciplinary regime, i.e.: confinement at labor, any incident of bad conduct or rules violation results in loss of credit for that day. A one year sentence requires 365 days of good behavior, no matter how long it takes the individual to complete that requirement.

    First time violent offense (resulting in death or serious injury), ten years in a disciplinary regime (see above).

    Second time violent offense, 20 years in a disciplinary regime (see agove).

    Any violent offense while incarcerated, mandatory life imprisonment, disciplinary regime with labor if behavior allows, solitary confinement if behavior does not permit association with others.

    During WW2 there were POW camps all over the United States. Usually frame barracks buildings, occasionally tent cities, surrounded by barbed wire with guard towers, usually requiring no more than a few dozen armed soldiers to secure. Violent incidents or escape attempts resulted in deadly force. My point here is that penitentiaries need not be places of comfort or recreational opportunity.

    Perhaps I have said enough to display my vision of a future with peace and justice.

  16. #45
    Senior Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColoradoDiablo View Post
    Are you suggesting that I personally am unwilling to place myself in danger to help my fellow man or society at large?

    I think my close to 28 years of military service and combat deployments and action in several countries says otherwise.

    Cops are not special. They chose a job and get paid for it. Veterans are not special. They too chose a job and got paid for it. I am grateful for cops and veterans but neither is any more special than a teacher, nurse, plumber, trash collector, receptionist, etc. We all breathe the same air, most have families, and most want to live a long life. Any life needlessly cut short is worthy of the same penalty for murder. Special laws meant to elevate and create special classes of persons by way of penalties for crimes against said persons are wrong and do not belong in a just society.
    You may be willing to put yourself in danger for your fellow man and that is admirable.
    Cops do it every day and to many of them it is not just a paycheck, not just a job.
    I know many people in LE, relatives and friends. To most if not all of them it is more of a "calling".
    Why would anyone do the job, get paid peanuts compared to many jobs, get treated like garbage by the very folks you are trying to help.
    Cops go into neighborhoods where they are hated and try to protect those folks.
    How many of y'all are willing to do that? Not many I will guess. They do not just do it for a paycheck.
    I respect everyone's opinion. But I will never change my mind that LEO's and Veterans are special among us.
    ETXhiker likes this.

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