They Had No Clue

They Had No Clue

This is a discussion on They Had No Clue within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; A F-22 Raptor Snuck Right Underneath an Iranian Fighter Jet https://news.yahoo.com/f-22-raptor-s...l?guccounter=1...

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    VIP Member Array SatCong's Avatar
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    They Had No Clue

    A F-22 Raptor Snuck Right Underneath an Iranian Fighter Jet
    https://news.yahoo.com/f-22-raptor-s...l?guccounter=1
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    Sweet, those flyboys have a great sense of humor.
    Iran’s air farce and navy would be history in a couple of hours
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    It was the will of allah.
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    F-4s were always limited in their cockpit visibility. Can't believe they have those old warhorses still flying.
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    That is great I would have enjoyed seeing that. A real "Top Gun" stunt. The F4 was a top of the line combat aircraft in its era but clearly outmatched by today's technology.
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    When I was in a squadron in the Indian Ocean during the Hostage Crisis, we would use our A-6's for ship reconnaissance off the coast of Iran. The Iranians were resigned to using their F-14s for early warning, because American tech reps had sabotaged their ability to fire Phoenix missiles when the Ayatollah took over, just before the reps left the country. I consider those guys heroes. The Iranians couldn't get the capability back online. So they would fly Two F-14s in a race track pattern over their airbase, Bandar Abbas. The one that was outbound was using its AWG-9 radar in search mode to be a ersatz AWACS.

    They would sometimes vector F-4s from Bandar Abbas to intercept us, but it was always a trap. We would lead them out to sea, while our E-2 Hawkeye (real AWACS!) would vector two of our fully operational F-14s toward the F-4s. They didn't have permission to shoot, but they would switch their AWG-9s into targeting mode, which the Iranian F-14s would pick up.

    We listened to the them on the radio, because we knew their frequencies. As soon as our F-14s lit them up, they would start frantically screaming at each other. We would mock them over the ICS with the line from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, "Run away! Run away!" The F-4s would always turn tail and head back home. The wanted no part of any real F-14s.

    They were funny on the radio. Their language, Farsi, either did not have an adequate technical vocabulary or maybe they had been trained in English. But we would hear in Farsi, "Jabber, jabber, jabber, five thousand pounds of fuel, jabber, jabber, jabber. So we didn't know Farsi, but we still picked up a lot of intel from them.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

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    It would be interesting to know how the Raptors managed to remain in stealth. Did the pilots use radar? Were they vectored by an AWACS? Why didn’t an E-2 — providing Airborne Early Warning in the area — not broadcast the message to dissuade the F-4 from pursuing the drone before the Iranian Phantoms and the U.S. Raptors came close to a potentially dangerous and tense situation?
    I would guess AWACs vectored them in for the shock effect of suddenly seeing a Raptor close enough to easily take you out and you had no warning.
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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    I would guess AWACs vectored them in for the shock effect of suddenly seeing a Raptor close enough to easily take you out and you had no warning.
    I think you are right. My guess is the E-2 vectored the Raptor to within visual range. The raptor might have radioed in that he thought he could pull the stunt off. The commanders on the ship might have said, "Sure, see if you can do it!" Sometimes they do stuff like that to test capabilities, but I seriously doubt the Raptor pilot did it without an OK from home base. Despite what you see in Top Gun, freelancing on that kind of stuff is a "wing-remover."
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    I think you are right. My guess is the E-2 vectored the Raptor to within visual range. The raptor might have radioed in that he thought he could pull the stunt off. The commanders on the ship might have said, "Sure, see if you can do it!" Sometimes they do stuff like that to test capabilities, but I seriously doubt the Raptor pilot did it without an OK from home base. Despite what you see in Top Gun, freelancing on that kind of stuff is a "wing-remover."
    Sometimes it is better to just do it and ask for forgiveness later, the Aircraft Commander and I got into serious trouble at Sigonella when we backed a C-5 using thrust reversers. When we got back to Travis we were met by the Wing Commander, the Squadron Commander and Stan Eval. We got a good chewing out but then we were asked how we did it with no damage to the airplane.
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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msgt/ret View Post
    Sometimes it is better to just do it and ask for forgiveness later, the Aircraft Commander and I got into serious trouble at Sigonella when we backed a C-5 using thrust reversers. When we got back to Travis we were met by the Wing Commander, the Squadron Commander and Stan Eval. We got a good chewing out but then we were asked how we did it with no damage to the airplane.
    Cool. That kind of stuff is adapting, overcoming adversity and we did that stuff too. But I am talking about political, international incident, headline news stuff. When I was in the Indian Ocean, the E-2 gave us a vector that crept inside Iran's 12 mile limit to look at a suspicious ship. I could see on my radar it was inside 12 miles and asked the E-2 was he sure. He said it was approved and we just tiptoed over the 12 mile line and scoped out the ship. When we got back, we, and the E-2 crew got a huge ass chewing by the Carrier Air Group commander and got threatened with all sorts of serious actions. It blew over, but the message was that if it made headlines, we were done.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

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    “He [the Raptor pilot] flew under their aircraft [the F-4s] to check out their weapons load without them knowing that he was there, and then pulled up on their left wing and then called them and said ‘you really ought to go home.’”

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    Interesting event, for sure. Article is several years old, though...
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    The F-22, like the F-35 and a few others, now use a little goody called IRST (Infra Red Search / Track). It is sort of like an infra red telescope/camera on steroids. No emissions in the RF or light spectrum to be intercepted and the working range is in three digits (100+ miles). A group I worked around installed an early version in the F-14. I wasn't nearly as sophisticated as today's versions.

    Even the current generation of radars are much more difficult to "see", but IRST is totally invisible since it is a passive system that relies on super-cooled components.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    When I was in a squadron in the Indian Ocean during the Hostage Crisis, we would use our A-6's for ship reconnaissance off the coast of Iran. The Iranians were resigned to using their F-14s for early warning, because American tech reps had sabotaged their ability to fire Phoenix missiles when the Ayatollah took over, just before the reps left the country. I consider those guys heroes. The Iranians couldn't get the capability back online. So they would fly Two F-14s in a race track pattern over their airbase, Bandar Abbas. The one that was outbound was using its AWG-9 radar in search mode to be a ersatz AWACS.

    They would sometimes vector F-4s from Bandar Abbas to intercept us, but it was always a trap. We would lead them out to sea, while our E-2 Hawkeye (real AWACS!) would vector two of our fully operational F-14s toward the F-4s. They didn't have permission to shoot, but they would switch their AWG-9s into targeting mode, which the Iranian F-14s would pick up.

    We listened to the them on the radio, because we knew their frequencies. As soon as our F-14s lit them up, they would start frantically screaming at each other. We would mock them over the ICS with the line from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, "Run away! Run away!" The F-4s would always turn tail and head back home. The wanted no part of any real F-14s.

    They were funny on the radio. Their language, Farsi, either did not have an adequate technical vocabulary or maybe they had been trained in English. But we would hear in Farsi, "Jabber, jabber, jabber, five thousand pounds of fuel, jabber, jabber, jabber. So we didn't know Farsi, but we still picked up a lot of intel from them.
    Given that we trained, equipped, and supported them prior to the overthrow their capabilities and procedures were more than well known to us. The Tech-Reps never got the credit that they deserved, you're right they are unsung heroes in my book too.
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    When I was on instructor duty in the Navy, I was teaching a block on leadership. I asked an Iranian Chief what he thought of the things we had just gone over. He replied, "It might work, but I prefer thumbscrews."

    We had a graduation party at the enlisted men's club. My ex-wife attended with me. There were several Arab students in the class. My ex-wife was dark-complected with dark hair and a Roman nose from her American Indian heritage. Every time the music started, several of the Arabs would rush to ask my wife to dance. It was getting old for her. I told her I would speak to them. She said she would take care of it. The next one to dance with her complemented her. She said, "That is the way we Jewish are." The dance requests ceased.
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