Fewer Phoenix OIS in 2019, plus "who do we want cops to be?"

Fewer Phoenix OIS in 2019, plus "who do we want cops to be?"

This is a discussion on Fewer Phoenix OIS in 2019, plus "who do we want cops to be?" within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; A story out of Phoenix this week. Phoenix apparently led the nation in officer-involved shootings in 2018, that statistic being accompanied by loud wailing from ...

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Thread: Fewer Phoenix OIS in 2019, plus "who do we want cops to be?"

  1. #1
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    Fewer Phoenix OIS in 2019, plus "who do we want cops to be?"

    A story out of Phoenix this week. Phoenix apparently led the nation in officer-involved shootings in 2018, that statistic being accompanied by loud wailing from multiple ethnic groups, social justice warriors and so-called spokesmen for the various communities. The Phoenix political leaders are majority left-leaning, and there was a lot of pressure on the mayor and police chief to "do something." Both are women and they embarked on a multiple-stop PR campaign together in the city over a few weeks, playing to their own supporters, of course. Cops were routinely scrutinized for nearly any use of force, numerous civil suits were filed, along with some charged criminally.

    As of mid-2019, patrol officers had to document every occasion when they pointed their gun at a person. Money for body cameras magically appeared so all patrol officers were so equipped.

    Now the news story that OIS incidents dropped dramatically in 2019 over 2018, and the clear implication is that the chief's new policies are the main reason for the reduced statistic.

    https://www.azcentral.com/in-depth/n...ra/2612466001/

    What's missing from the story, and I can't cite the numbers, is the lower morale in the Phoenix PD and the sense of now being second-guessed for every use of force. Never mind that Phoenix is at the crossroads of 2 major Interstate highways and is the third largest US city within 100 miles of the Mexican border, making it ripe for human trafficking and drug trafficking by the Mexican cartels. The number of bad guys (and gals!) is growing, but Heaven forbid the cops should employ deadly force to maintain peace, capture and detain the bad ones. And the crazy ones.

    No sooner did I see that story in the local news, then a friend sent me the following opinion piece. It's centered around the role of rural police, but the parallels with metropolitan PDs are not hard to fathom. I like the dog analogy; we want cuddly golden retrievers most of the time, but a "demon Malinois" when the SHTF and lives are in the balance.

    The Rural Badge : Decide What You Want

    What exactly do we want from our police?
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    Cross reference the data on drops in OIS incidents with the data on serious misdemeanors and felony arrests over time. I think you will see an interesting correlation.
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    aka the Ferguson effect
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    Quote Originally Posted by entertainment72 View Post
    aka the Ferguson effect
    Having spent a fair amount of time in Ferguson while living in the St. Louis area, that one is near and dear. Ferguson, its government and its police force had been a mess for years before "the incident." Officer Darren Wilson was not found to have used force unjustifiably, but he could have done a lot better job in how he used it. I have no sympathy for Michael Brown or the rioters, but if Wilson had done his job better, cops in general and all the people they serve would be in a lot better place right now.

    We owe cops all our support when they use force justifiably and competently. They owe us only using force in that way. The government requires that of us as defense gun owners. We should require it of the government.
    Last edited by jmf552; January 9th, 2020 at 05:12 PM.
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    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    Honestly, having been to Phoenix, and knowing two of the neighborhoods that are complete disgusting hells filled with some nasty criminals. The local LEOs leading the nation in shootings only makes sense. The inner city Hispanics are far worse than the inner city blacks. There are other neighborhoods filled with human filth too, but not as bad as the other two. My brother, who used to live there, made certain our folks and myself knew where not to go.

    The local news had their violent stories of the day. Most of them were psychos from the Hispanic hood. It's a war zone. To survive, the LEOs needed to be equally aggressive as the criminals. They were barely keeping the honest people safe. Last time I was there was six years ago. I can't imagine that things were improving after that time. Glad my brother and his wife are back in the Midwest.

    Honestly, the Hispanic hood in Phoenix makes Chicago's south side look like it isn't so bad, and that place is a craphole too.

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    Iím fine with officers being required to wear and use body cameras as well as document when they point a firearm at someone. The article says shootings are down but they are more deadly. I donít know that being ďmore deadlyĒ is really significant.
    We get the government we deserve.

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    One of the things that bothers me about the "analysis" of the OIS numbers and now even newer stats about guns pointed at people is that the reports draw first-look conclusions that "people of color" are more likely to have guns drawn on them. But that's shallow and ignores the brutal truth that in this metro area, that demographic segment is the one that's committing the majority of crimes. I'm sure there are all sorts of socio-economic reasons for that behavior, but if a lot more purple people are committing crimes than chartreuse people, the purple ones are going to be on the receiving end of a lot more police attention than the chartreuse ones.
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    The Ferguson "effect" is, indeed, very much in force playing out within our borders. When an officer will spend a couple of hours filling out a use-of-force report for pulling their weapon on someone who is making furtive movements, you see far fewer stops of vehicles and persons happen. Therefore, more criminals get away to do further criminal deeds. Same thing goes with chase policies that only get more restrictive, judges getting ever more liberal and a populace ever more adverse to holding individuals accountable for their actions. The only good I've seen from the cameras is when the law allows and the prosecutors will actually charge people for making false accusations against the police.

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