Texas Police Chief Urges Off Duty Officers To Wear Uniforms At Place Of Worship - Page 2

Texas Police Chief Urges Off Duty Officers To Wear Uniforms At Place Of Worship

This is a discussion on Texas Police Chief Urges Off Duty Officers To Wear Uniforms At Place Of Worship within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by Bad Bob That is not how it works. I don't know where you live but Ft Worth cops do not "Look like ...

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Thread: Texas Police Chief Urges Off Duty Officers To Wear Uniforms At Place Of Worship

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array Frodebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    That is not how it works. I don't know where you live but Ft Worth cops do not "Look like security" Nor do they act like it. I can tell you after having been a FT Worth cop your perception of their attitude is mistaken also.
    I think he was referring to the attitude that liberals have that only LEOs should be allowed to carry firearms and provide security in places like churches. By encouraging LEOs to attend church in uniform, it solidifies their argument (in their minds) that "See, nobody needs to be armed in church unless you're a trained LEO."

  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array RedSafety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly2 View Post
    Hey, I wore something like that in the 6th grade when I was a crossing guard. My little sister in kindergarten at the time thought I looked really important and impressive.
    The idea behind this product is to put it on AFTER a shooting, not before. The product is NOT intended to be a deterrent but a safety device when the police arrive to avoid friendly fire incidents.

    As for being in uniform, I agree it reinforces the wrong impression that only LEO's are able to defend someone with a firearm.
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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSafety View Post
    As for being in uniform, I agree it reinforces the wrong impression that only LEO's are able to defend someone with a firearm.
    I do not see it that way. I see it as another layer of deterrence. I can understand why so many people see that, even on a gun forum. I have been trained and used the doctrine of layered security.
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    It serves no purpose to do this, as everyone in church is known to everyone else, and almost all mass shooters are employees or members of the building they commit the shooting in. A uniform accomplishes nothing more than making yourself a target. That Police Chief's heart is in the right place, but his idea doesn't have a lot of practical merit to it.
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  6. #20
    Member Array SunTsu's Avatar
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    My wife's temple pays an officer to stand out front.
    We look at it as a security blanket for the congregation.
    She trains with the assumption that any attack would start inside with the officer being bypassed, or the officer being the first victim and needing immediate medical attention.
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  7. #21
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Off duty/off the clock is fine. If the churches pay them directly that would be ok too. But if they pay the officers with tax dollars then they would have ro provide a uniformed officer to every church in the jurisdiction. Can't show any favoritism.
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  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array RedSafety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    It serves no purpose to do this, as everyone in church is known to everyone else, and almost all mass shooters are employees or members of the building they commit the shooting in. A uniform accomplishes nothing more than making yourself a target. That Police Chief's heart is in the right place, but his idea doesn't have a lot of practical merit to it.
    I would like to see the research that shows that "all mass shooters are employees or members of the building they commit the shooting in," as it relates to churches. I don't recall more than 1 or 2 church shootings EVER where the shooter was a member of the body.

    As for "everyone in church is known to everyone else," how does that apply to conceal carry? The idea is to conceal, as in not let anybody know you are carrying. I've talked to many members who have no idea anybody is carrying. I know at least four others who carry, and I also know there are more than that. Other than the two I regularly associate with and talk guns with, I only know about the others because I'm on staff. As a body, only a few even know anybody is carrying just about every service. Oops, one more, so I know of 5 who carry religiously (pun intended).
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  9. #23
    Member Array Honeybee42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frodebro View Post
    I think he was referring to the attitude that liberals have that only LEOs should be allowed to carry firearms and provide security in places like churches. By encouraging LEOs to attend church in uniform, it solidifies their argument (in their minds) that "See, nobody needs to be armed in church unless you're a trained LEO."
    *she

    And yes, that is the point I was trying to express.
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  10. #24
    Senior Member Array Frodebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honeybee42 View Post
    *she

    And yes, that is the point I was trying to express.
    Sincere apologies, ma'am!

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frodebro View Post
    Sincere apologies, ma'am!
    No offense taken--it's a risk taken with a user name and avatar that don't scream gender :)
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  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    It serves no purpose to do this, as everyone in church is known to everyone else, and almost all mass shooters are employees or members of the building they commit the shooting in. A uniform accomplishes nothing more than making yourself a target. That Police Chief's heart is in the right place, but his idea doesn't have a lot of practical merit to it.
    Maybe not.
    The Sutherland Springs, TX church shooter wasn't a member or employee.
    White Settlement church shooting was by a vagrant who occasionally begged food from the church, but not a member or employee.
    Wedgewood Baptist Church shooter (Texas, 1999) was not a member or employee
    Burnett Chapel, Antioch, TN 2017, shooter was a former member
    Emmanuel African American church shooting in Charleston, SC in 2015 was by a white supremest who was not a member or employee.
    Youth with a Mission and New Life Church shootings in CO were not by a member or employee
    Living Church of God, WI 2005, shooter WAS a current member of the church
    Dangerfield, TX 1980 church shooting, the shooter knew folks in the congregation, but was not a member

    Attacks on synagogues, Muslim, and Hindu places of worship have not been carried out by members or employees as near as I can tell.
    For example, Waddell Buddist Temple shooting, AZ 1991
    Sikh temple shooting, WI, 2012

    When you move away from mass type shootings, then shooters seem to be more likely to be members, such as
    Keystone Fellowship Church, PA 2016 where one member shot another member who was acting unruly. Shooter was convicted of involuntary manslaughter.
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  13. #27
    Senior Member Array azretired's Avatar
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    If I'm wearing my uniform to church on my day off, I better be getting PAID for doing so. Dress in plain clothes and be armed? Yes. Uniform no unless I get paid. Sorry but that's the rules where I worked.

    As a note, while attending church, in uniform, some years back (20?) I was asked to leave or put my gun out in my car. I left and never attended that church again.
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Off duty/off the clock is fine. If the churches pay them directly that would be ok too. But if they pay the officers with tax dollars then they would have ro provide a uniformed officer to every church in the jurisdiction. Can't show any favoritism.
    That was in the OP, it is off duty. Fort Worth covers you when off duty as if you were on duty.
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