On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society

On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society

This is a discussion on On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society - by Dave Grossman "Psychologist and US Army Ranger Dave Grossman writes ...

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 96
Like Tree528Likes

Thread: On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Peoples Republic of California
    Posts
    210

    Post On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society

    On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society - by Dave Grossman

    "Psychologist and US Army Ranger Dave Grossman writes that the vast majority of soldiers are loath to pull the trigger in battle. Unfortunately, modern armies, using Pavlovian and operant conditioning, have developed sophisticated ways of overcoming this instinctive aversion.

    The mental cost for members of the military, as witnessed by the increase in post-traumatic stress, is devastating. The sociological cost for the rest of us is even worse: Contemporary civilian society, particularly the media, replicates the armyís conditioning techniques and, Grossman argues, is responsible for the rising rate of murder and violence, especially among the young."

    I recommend this book. Rocky

  2. #2
    Member Array SunTsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    Space Coast
    Posts
    263
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Bears View Post
    Contemporary civilian society, particularly the media, replicates the armyís conditioning techniques and, Grossman argues, is responsible for the rising rate of murder and violence, especially among the young."
    media responsible for the "rising rate of murder"?

    On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society-ucr-national-2018.jpg
    BBMike and wdbailey like this.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array G26Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Southwest
    Posts
    7,916
    Two Bears, there is a lot more to that book. It's an excellent read for anyone who carries a weapon.
    You are your own first responder.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    DefensiveCarry.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    705
    The vast majority of doctor Grossman's theories have been thoroughly debunked.

    This is the guy who spent the majority of his career as a psychology professor at West Point. Yes he is Ranger qualified but he never once served in the Ranger regiment. He has never served a day in a combat zone and he's never heard a shot fired in anger
    Havok, JAG45, Osprey and 2 others like this.

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    US
    Posts
    7,379
    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    The vast majority of doctor Grossman's theories have been thoroughly debunked.

    This is the guy who spent the majority of his career as a psychology professor at West Point. Yes he is Ranger qualified but he never once served in the Ranger regiment. He has never served a day in a combat zone and he's never heard a shot fired in anger
    This^ He may be able to catch attention with his books and public speaking, but credible he is not.
    baren and wdbailey like this.
    We get the government we deserve.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    705

  8. #7
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Florida Twilight Zone
    Posts
    32,875
    To me, he's a cheerleader. Lots of rah-rah but never steps foot on the field.
    SatCong, JAG45, OD* and 2 others like this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  9. #8
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,201
    His "sheepdip" or whatever, theory was enough to put me off the first time I heard of him.
    Osprey and wdbailey like this.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

  10. #9
    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Peoples Republic of California
    Posts
    210
    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    Two Bears, there is a lot more to that book. It's an excellent read for anyone who carries a weapon.
    I agree, as it is a great read as you say for anyone that carries a weapon! Too me you sift the information. for what you can use. Not everyone agrees among "experts" in any field including firearms, psychology, or criminology. If you expect agreement in most fields of study you are going to be badly disappointed.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    705
    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    His "sheepdip" or whatever, theory was enough to put me off the first time I heard of him.
    I mean, it's not a bad analogy for the people it's intended for. The military, the police, to some degree EMS and Fire Department.

    The problem is people with the concealed handgun permit start buying into that sheepdog mentality and think they're the neighborhood watch (George Zimmerman)
    Havok, jmf552, baren and 1 others like this.

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    705
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Bears View Post
    I agree, as it is a great read as you say for anyone that carries a weapon!
    How can it be a good read if his theories have been shown to be quite faulty?
    baren and wdbailey like this.

  13. #12
    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Peoples Republic of California
    Posts
    210
    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    How can it be a good read if his theories have been shown to be quite faulty?
    That may be your opinion and that of some others however just as in the field of psychology there are quite a few major world renowned psychologists who's theories are considered faulty to one degree or another by differing schools of thought however that does not mean there is not truth or valuable insight to be gained by researching the data.

    I am not a follower of Sigmund Freud however one can still learn from studying his ideas.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    705
    I don't have a lot of use for dr. Grossman or his theories. I've stated that and I really don't think that my continued participation in this thread serves any good or useful purpose.

    You guys enjoy your discussion
    DownInTheDark and wdbailey like this.

  15. #14
    Ex Member Array Two Bears's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Peoples Republic of California
    Posts
    210
    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    The vast majority of Freud's theories have also been found to be incorrect. I learned that in Psych 101 12 years ago
    Well, I learned about Freud, Jung, and many others yet they still teach about the different schools of thought for a reason. Even so there are some who still believe in the different schools in practice across the USA today. My point is to be well rounded in your understanding one should understand many different schools of thought and that gives you more of an innate flexibility to understand what you may be facing on the street under unknown circumstances. As you said "many" of Freud's theories have come into question but not all; as many of the theories of other major giants in the field of psychology. The more you learn and understand the more you can adapt.
    maxwell97 likes this.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    US
    Posts
    7,379
    Quote Originally Posted by Two Bears View Post
    That may be your opinion and that of some others however just as in the field of psychology there are quite a few major world renowned psychologists who's theories are considered faulty to one degree or another by differing schools of thought however that does not mean there is not truth or valuable insight to be gained by researching the data.

    I am not a follower of Sigmund Freud however one can still learn from studying his ideas.
    Itís not just an opinion. He wrote about fake research.
    Cypher, OD* and wdbailey like this.
    We get the government we deserve.

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •