New facial recognition software crime stopper or end of privacy?

New facial recognition software crime stopper or end of privacy?

This is a discussion on New facial recognition software crime stopper or end of privacy? within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; This thing is already in use by a lot a Police Dept. They are lifting peoples photos off Facebook and Google to put in the ...

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Thread: New facial recognition software crime stopper or end of privacy?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    New facial recognition software crime stopper or end of privacy?

    This thing is already in use by a lot a Police Dept.
    They are lifting peoples photos off Facebook and Google to put in the database.
    Not sure why it is needed. Cops arrest the perps and the prosecutors and judges just let them out.
    https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-facia...end-of-privacy

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    Member Array Osprey's Avatar
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    Don't get me started on this one. Of course, it is an invasion of privacy and IMO a violation of the 4A.
    SFury, msgt/ret, Arejay and 2 others like this.

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    Distinguished Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    Pretty soon stalkers and perverts will be able to snap a photo of your wife or young kids and find out who they are and where they live.
    What can possibly go wrong!
    Osprey, airslot, NECCdude and 1 others like this.

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    Distinguished Member Array ETXhiker's Avatar
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    It is both. The question is, how much freedom do we give up for a little added safety? I'm afraid too many people have lost all concept of personal freedom and just want the government to take care of them. That never, ever ends well. As I have said before, the technology in place right now, guarantees that if we ever lose control to an authoritarian government (some say we already have), we will never get it back.
    "There are some ideas that are so wrong, only a very intelligent person could believe them." - George Orwell

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    Member Array Osprey's Avatar
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    There is no stopping the Government. People joke or hate the people that do the 1A,2A, 4A audits on Youtube, but they do show how abusive the Government is. It does not matter if the person is a DB or a person that legitimately is trying to educate/expose how the Government should act, the end result is the same.

    For example: let use this as an example of Government overreach and how the Government officials use a loose interpretation of a law to arrest someone exercising a Constitutionally protected act.

    A person is walking down the street with a firearm legally. A concerned citizen calls the police to investigate. The LE arrest the guy because he was disturbing the peace or disorderly conduct (it happens, they use that because he was frightening the snowflakes) Also, forget about arguing the pros/cons of this situation for the purpose of this exercise.

    Now, we have cameras monitoring folks movement throughout the streets. The Government sees a person walking down the street with a firearm. (now, the system recognizes not only faces but firearms) and alerts police to investigate.

    Police come, the citizen refuses to ID and they arrest him for disturbing the peace as a trumped upcharge.

    I can see this going SOUTH really fast.

  7. #6
    Member Array Swedishsteel's Avatar
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    The February 8-9, 2020 edition of the Wall Street Journal had an excellent editorial written by Sean Kennedy of the Maryland Public Policy Institute about the crushing impact of violent crime on the city of Baltimore. In 2019 the city experienced 348 murders for a rate of 58 murders per 100,000 citizens; the deadliest rate in America. For comparison, Guatemala, El Salvador, and Honduras had rates of 21, 36 and 41 respectively. The Baltimore police department has experienced a decline in arrests of 48% during the past 5 years. Less than 35% of murder cases result in an arrest. The city has over 1,500 open homicide cases covering just the past ten years. Under State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby's tenure less than 1 in 6 charged murder cases resulted in a prison sentence for the accused offender. 43% of the murder cases handled by her department resulted in charges being dropped or verdicts of not guilty. Perhaps most stunning of all, Ms. Mosby's department negotiated plea agreements with 76 convicted killers that only imposed a sentence of probation, returning the offender to the streets.

    Baltimore had a chance to attack their crime problem and raise the standard of living for its residents but squandered it due to concerns over privacy rights. https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion...024-story.html .

    If this article whets your appetite for ways in which Wide Area Aerial Surveillance (WAAS) could cure urban crime I heartily recommend the book "Eyes in the Sky" by Arthur Michel https://www.amazon.com/Eyes-Sky-Secr.../dp/B07FK9567C. The author provides a fairly well balanced report on the benefits of Wide Area Aerial Surveillance and associated systems including ground based cameras, license plate readers, and facial recognition software juxtaposed with rights and attitudes toward personal privacy. I can feel readers of this forum tensing up and fuming over anything that "infringes" on their personal rights and freedoms. Please have an open mind and learn about this subject. I already see that some readers do not stray far from home due to fears, I suppose, over unfamiliar territory in big cities or regions of the country outside their "comfort zone". To me, that's an intolerable diminishing infringement on the freedom to travel, enjoy life, and explore.

    A final thought on the subject of WAAS and its associated support tools. After a forty plus year in risk management, I am convinced that long prison sentences and the death penalty have almost no deterrence on crime. Yes, they separate the offenders from the rest of society but their departure only opens the way for their competitors in the murky underworld to expand their operations. Most criminals have the attitude that they will not be apprehended and, if they are, they will "beat the rap". It's not an unreasonable perspective. Indianapolis, a heartland city near my home, had 159 criminal homicides in 2018. The fourth record breaking year in a row! As of July, 2019 only about 50% of the previous year's murders resulted in the arrest of a suspect. The conviction rate of suspects who do not accept a plea is less than 30%. Yep, people get away with murder every day, not to mention rapes, violent assaults, home burglary, car theft etc. What stops criminals is not the harshness of the consequences of being convicted, though that is the easy fix that politicians promote during election years; what stops criminals is the CERTAINTY that if they commit a crime they will be caught and will be punished. Swift, predictable escalating punishments such as short jail stints for first offenders followed by probation and re incarceration for longer periods upon ensuing convictions, would deter many criminals from getting on the treadmill...but the criminal has to know that they will be caught and convicted much more often than they can evade justice after a criminal act.

    Indianapolis is infuriating with the prayer vigils, pious solicitations to "stop the violence" and citizen coalitions that shakedown city hall for funding in exchange for keeping victims in the most adversely affected neighborhoods calm. Concrete action is necessary, not platitudes. I have no problem with trials and experimentation in applying the same technologies that have taken out terrorists in the middle east with placing a check on criminal terrorists in our own cities.

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    Distinguished Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    Like I stated, what good is all this crap if there is no bail and no one does any time?
    To free the cops up, maybe they should just start sending a stern letter in the mail when you are recognized
    LimaCharlie, airslot and ETXhiker like this.

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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    I read recently that the CEO of the Ring doorbell system has bragged they now have agreements with over 350 police departments and LE agencies in the US to share Ring doorbell video footage with LE for facial recognition, without the consent of the doorbells' owners and apparently despite any security protocols people put on their systems. Just the fact that the product allows them to do that concerns me. Justifying this technology by bragging about catching one suspected pedophile is pretty lame. I have no doubt that anything on our WiFi systems will eventually be open to surveillance. This will not end well.
    Osprey, airslot, msgt/ret and 1 others like this.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

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    Senior Member Array Arejay's Avatar
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    It would seem that the rewards of committing a crime have outweighed the risks of getting caught. We now see municipalities and politicians sucking up to bullies and handing over their lunch money while punishing law abiding citizens and taking their liberties and seriously hampering their pursuit of Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness.
    Osprey, airslot and Rockymonster like this.

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    Heh, a lot of people will say if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about. Just like a lot of friends think that they have nothing to hide. Yeah, right.
    Osprey and airslot like this.
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    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    My signature line says it all. Some of you will worry yourselves into an early grave. You want privacy? Never ever leave what is private. But you will. I'm trying my hardest to enjoy the years I have left and too many want to be Debbie Downers.
    Tstone, Texas Red and Qtip like this.
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    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    As has been mentioned, if we do nothing to the criminals, or to resolve the root cause of the issue, what good is surveillance? It truly is worthless. It should not be tolerated.

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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    My signature line says it all. Some of you will worry yourselves into an early grave. You want privacy? Never ever leave what is private. But you will. I'm trying my hardest to enjoy the years I have left and too many want to be Debbie Downers.
    The official site curmudgeon is complaining about Debbie Downers? That's a bit ironic, isn't it?
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

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    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    The official site curmudgeon is complaining about Debbie Downers? That's a bit ironic, isn't it?
    I'm either complaining about Debbie Downer or you. This must be your day off.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  16. #15
    Distinguished Member Array Novarider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    I read recently that the CEO of the Ring doorbell system has bragged they now have agreements with over 350 police departments and LE agencies in the US to share Ring doorbell video footage with LE for facial recognition, without the consent of the doorbells' owners and apparently despite any security protocols people put on their systems. Just the fact that the product allows them to do that concerns me. Justifying this technology by bragging about catching one suspected pedophile is pretty lame. I have no doubt that anything on our WiFi systems will eventually be open to surveillance. This will not end well.
    This is the exact reason I'll never own a ring product. I was about to purchase the doorbell and a few flood lights when this info came out.
    msgt/ret likes this.

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