Airforce changing dress code. - Page 6

Airforce changing dress code.

This is a discussion on Airforce changing dress code. within the Law Enforcement, Military & Homeland Security Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; [QUOTE=The Fish;7917842] Originally Posted by Arejay I'm all for diversity, after all I am an American. I just don't care to be constantly hyphenating it. ...

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Thread: Airforce changing dress code.

  1. #76
    Senior Member Array Arejay's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=The Fish;7917842]
    Quote Originally Posted by Arejay View Post
    I'm all for diversity, after all I am an American. I just don't care to be constantly hyphenating it. It's gotten ridiculous and divisive. The exact opposite of what diversity hopes to accomplish.
    Next up ? Spandex uniforms for all I know.[/QUOTE

    So just don't hyphenate..."I am a Catholic and an American....I am a Jew and an American.....I am a Sikh and an American.

    BTW,seeing me in spandex TODAY would do you more damage than a .44Mag bullet!
    I'm just not going to hyphenate at all or broadcast my faith. What for ? I'm just a plain 'ol American mutt just like all Americans are. Don't see the need unless I have to play some kind of government invented game.

    I just found out this year I have a descendant that was one of the first Europeans into California via Florida. A Spaniard Californian who became a Mexican Californian and then ultimately an American Californian before he died. I have Scottish blood from the husbands side of that marriage.
    Do I proclaim myself as a Hispanic American in the upcoming census ? Can I ? Does it matter ?

    Thanks for the spandex warning.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    Is this humor, or are you serious?
    It's a JOKE!!!!
    Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, American Legion
    "Laws are nothing more than guidelines for honest citizens to follow. Criminals care nothing for laws or their consequences, or the Police or Courts. Getting caught is nothing more to them than a minor inconvenience".--Me

  3. #78
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldIthink View Post
    I like diversity. I think as many here have said, no religion should be exempt due their religion, but as graydude said and it actually contradicts his earlier ruling on the sihkas> "Unconstrained immigration of diversity will lead to the downfall of our Republic." meaning into the military services also I presume.
    By unconstrained immigration I was referring to open borders and the left's drive to have no limits on national immigration. The left is intentional importing large numbers of people who vote predominantly left, and eventually the weight of socialism will lead to the collapse of the Republic. Roughly 2/3 of immigrants tend to be socialists who desire big government.

    Immigrants who join the military, from what I've seen, are from the other 1/3 minority who lean right and truly understand and value the underpinnings of western society. Many have escaped the tyranny of the non-western world and don't want the failed policies of their former countries imposed in the U.S.

    These two groups of immigrants may look alike, but they have opposite views about government and are as far apart as left and right in the U.S. today.
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  5. #79
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post

    Are we going to allow the individual service members to decide what is or what is not needed to complete the mission? IMO, military rules have some reasoning behind them, if only for conformity and discipline. The military survives because of teamwork, not because every member paddles a different paddle on a different stroke. They end up going in circles. They need to march to the same beat of the same drummer.
    In some cases we do. Special Operations Command units and troops have greater latitude as far as dress code and weapons are concerned. Instead of M-4s some use Hk416s. For some missions they might take submachine guns. Some carry 9mm pistols, some .45s. Some Marines are going to a 1911 variant.

    Do you think we would be better protected if the guys that went after Bin Laden were wearing their "Cracker Jacks" and "Dixie cups" ?
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  6. #80
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    In some cases we do. Special Operations Command units and troops have greater latitude as far as dress code and weapons are concerned. Instead of M-4s some use Hk416s. For some missions they might take submachine guns. Some carry 9mm pistols, some .45s. Some Marines are going to a 1911 variant.

    Do you think we would be better protected if the guys that went after Bin Laden were wearing their "Cracker Jacks" and "Dixie cups" ?
    In some cases we do. Special Operations Command units and troops have greater latitude as far as dress code and weapons are concerned.

    ^^^^^^^ To the above statement, yes, we DO NEED some Latitude, in order to get the mission accomplished, (SPEC OPs and similar Units) BUT there does come a point when we must have consistency in dress code and military bearing and appearance, in order for the whole to maintain morale and chain of Command.
    I wonder what General Curtis LeMay would say....
    KILTED COWBOY and msgt/ret like this.
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  7. #81
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    It's a JOKE!!!!
    If you're a Marine, you might laugh this one off.........If you are a Marine, and you don't laugh, well, Tough!
    The rest of us will laugh ......

    A few years back, when the Gunny was doing a Meet and Greet at the Gun Shop I work at, I was selling a gun to a "Tin Can Sailor" (Destroyers)
    WW II Vet he was.....92 yrs YOUNG and still full of Life...Salty guy, but you'd love him

    ANYWAY here goes
    Me: The Gunny is gonna be here this weekend, are you gonna be here to see him?

    Sailor: Hell no!! Why would I want to see THAT guy? I saw enough of them in the South Pacific going from one Island to another. They thought they were "something Special" too.

    Me: why's that?

    Sailor: When you see him (the Gunny) Ask him This, from me, a "Old Tin Can Sailor" what "MARINE" stands for..

    Me: Puzzled look at this point.. What DOES "MARINE" stand for???

    Sailor: You just tell him you spoke with me and I wanted you to see what he says.
    M y
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    Me: Dumbfounded and LMAO too

    Sailor: You just tell him that, in order to remind him that without us (Naval Ships) They would have been back in the States, still playing soldiers...

    Sooo...... There ya go! That conversation came from a WW2 Vet. We laughed, and I shook his hand, thanked him for ALL he did.
    BTW, That day, I sold him a Smith & Wesson WW2 Victory Model Revolver 38 Special...
    Why Waltz when you can Rock-N-Roll

  8. #82
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLASS3NH View Post
    [B]
    I wonder what General Curtis LeMay would say....
    "Shave and put a hat on!"

    This thread demonstrates part of the reason I retired when I did. I could see the "Me" generation infiltrating, and the upper-level leadership folding in the path of these new troops. Somehow, our leaders feared damaging the young airmen's "self-esteem" more than maintaining standards.
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
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  9. #83
    VIP Member Array CLASS3NH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    "Shave and put a hat on!"

    This thread demonstrates part of the reason I retired when I did. I could see the "Me" generation infiltrating, and the upper-level leadership folding in the path of these new troops. Somehow, our leaders feared damaging the young airmen's "self-esteem" more than maintaining standards.
    ^^^ I agree.......BUT the Tradition and Respect for this guy, continues today "March Mustache" I can see this, but not Turbans and Beards,
    God Bless you Colonel Robin Olds...
    USAF March Mustache is next month....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustac...Mustache_March
    My Steve continues the Tradition but after March, it comes OFF.......
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Airforce changing dress code.-robin-olds.jpg  

    Airforce changing dress code.-img_0347.jpg  

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  10. #84
    Member Array Osprey's Avatar
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    The more I read about grooming standards and how they are a tradition for military cohesiveness and order the more I see it not being the case. Grooming standards in the US military from the inception of the Republic have changed for many reasons. Most have nothing to do with any standard for military order and cohesiveness. Even during WW II the standards were different that were imposed on the various commanders. Patton obviously being a stickler for a well-groomed soldier because in his eyes that made them a better soldier and a more cohesive unit.

    The guys in Burma did just well without shaving and performed honorably. A bit of history about Gen Stillwell:

    n India, Stilwell soon became well-known for his no-nonsense demeanor and disregard for military pomp and ceremony. His trademarks were a battered Army campaign hat, GI shoes, and a plain service uniform with no insignia of rank; he frequently carried a Model 1903, .30-06 Caliber,
    I was in the Army a long time. I was in some units with loose grooming standards because of necessity or because "that is the way it is"

    Aviation units have long been known over the decades to be loose on standards. No one is going to tell a CW4(5) in 1990 that they need to lose weight or get their mustache shortened if they have been serving 25 years and have served and flew in Vietnam.

    Does anyone think that a soldier serving in the ASA (back in the Cold War) that could copy 45 words a minute (Morse Code) in Chinese would be required to get a buzz cut?

    What about the National Guard and Reservists? What makes them a better soldier by getting a haircut once every other month compared to their active-duty brethren? I guess having a goatee half the year makes them "not" a good soldier?

    Let commanders do their jobs and let soldiers fight.
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  11. #85
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    So this one new piece of headwear is detrimental to good order and discipline as opposed to the other twelve authorized pieces because.....?
    And that twelve does not include helmets or other mission specific protective headgear.
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  12. #86
    Senior Member Array The Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Are we going to allow the individual service members to decide what is or what is not needed to complete the mission? IMO, military rules have some reasoning behind them, if only for conformity and discipline. The military survives because of teamwork, not because every member paddles a different paddle on a different stroke. They end up going in circles. They need to march to the same beat of the same drummer.
    Of course not;the CO decides, but the troops can REQUEST.
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  13. #87
    VIP Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    So this one new piece of headwear is detrimental to good order and discipline as opposed to the other twelve authorized pieces because.....?
    And that twelve does not include helmets or other mission specific protective headgear.
    12 headgear items? Wow, when I was in it was 3, well 5 with the furry winter hats.
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  14. #88
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    So this one new piece of headwear is detrimental to good order and discipline as opposed to the other twelve authorized pieces because.....?
    And that twelve does not include helmets or other mission specific protective headgear.
    Are turbans military-issued headgear, or religious articles? Do we need Kevlar turbans?
    CLASS3NH likes this.
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  15. #89
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdprof View Post

    12 headgear items? Wow, when I was in it was 3, well 5 with the furry winter hats.
    From the linked regulation you have,
    1) Men's "Wheel hat"
    2) Women's "Bucket hat"
    3) Flight cap
    4) Beret
    5) Blue Winter Cap
    6) Watch Cap Black
    7) Watch Cap Sage Green
    8) Watch Cap Coyote Brown
    9) ABU Patrol Cap
    10) OCP Patrol Cap
    11) Organizational Cap Red
    12) Organizational Cap Black
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  16. #90
    Distinguished Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    After reading all the posts y'all have changed my mind.
    I now believe that anything goes is Okay as long as the mission gets done.
    I am enthusiastically awaiting the first cross dressing or trans-gendered soldier.
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