Be Alert at Church Today!!! - Page 7

Be Alert at Church Today!!!

This is a discussion on Be Alert at Church Today!!! within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by OldChap @ Chief1297 Church secrets? Ha...you would be shocked at how many churches have some whoppers! Both true ones and false! It ...

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  1. #91
    Distinguished Member Array Chief1297's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post

    @Chief1297 Church secrets? Ha...you would be shocked at how many churches have some whoppers! Both true ones and false! It is usually inversely related to how often the subject of gossip enters the sermon.
    It has been my experience that the only way there is a secret at church is if only one person knows about it and doesn't tell anyone. The fact that you know some church's have "whoppers both true and false" (to use your words) tells me you know about them. Gossip is what mankind does. They pretty much have never let me down.
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  2. #92
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    @Grizzly2 "Why does God not protect individual Churches and believers?" You mean why do they get sick? Or get cancer? Or get killed in accidents or murders? Or all the innumerable bad things that seemingly happen to people? Forum rules prevent me from really giving you an accurate answer, but in a nutshell, it has a great deal to do with the fact that we cannot see things from His perspective.
    Sirs, like you I won't dive into this because it would go far off topic. But I would like to point out the best book I've ever read on the subject: "When Bad Things Happen to Good People" by Rabbi Kushner. https://www.amazon.com/When-Things-H.../dp/1400034728

    "When Harold Kushner’s three-year-old son was diagnosed with a degenerative disease that meant the boy would only live until his early teens, he was faced with one of life’s most difficult questions: Why, God? Years later, Rabbi Kushner wrote this straightforward, elegant contemplation of the doubts and fears that arise when tragedy strikes. In these pages, Kushner shares his wisdom as a rabbi, a parent, a reader, and a human being."
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  3. #93
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly2 View Post
    Old Chap, I wasn't going there. Merely pointing out how we all should be more aware of His Spirit in our lives and the guidance and protection inherent with living that way.
    I understand that. No problem. My point was that in nearly 40 years of being a pastor, police chaplain, and Hospice chaplain, I must have had that question put to me at least 1,000 times a year. Now that I'm retired, I jump at it like a hungry bass!

    @graydude Once again, forum rules. A great deal of what people understand about "bad things happening to good people" depends on how you view yourself and what you think you deserve. Suffice to say I have yet to find a promise of a life with no troubles, hardships, tears, sickness, heartbreak, and so forth.
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  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    Then there's also the threat of toy drones that can be re-purposed to drop explosives, chem, or bio weapons; or, dropping smoke grenades to herd a crowd toward a more conventional ground threat. Simple, inexpensive stuff that can be used in many ways by a creative enemy..
    In the 60s, there was a TV show, "The Man From U.N.C.L.E.". In one episode, their HQ was attacked with a model airplane that their high tech equipment could not stop.

    In real life, a teen-aged American, Mathias Rust, made news when he landed a Cessna in Red Square in 1987. Fortunately for him, the formidable Russian air defense system couldn't even see him -- even as he landed. Fortunately for the Russians, was not on a bombing/suicide run.

    Earlier in real life, Japan actually used hydrogen filled balloons, loaded with 10 lbs of explosives. In 1945, pregnant Joan Patzke and five of her children were killed by one of those things. While highly inefficient, those "fire balloons" were arguably the first intercontinental weaponry. If one of them had started a wildfire, building or bridge collapse, or even an avalanche, the death toll could have been much worse.

  6. #95
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    Be Alert at Church Today!!!

    Rust was actually a West German, IIRC. A very naive person. The Soviets did not take kindly to being embarrassed.
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  7. #96
    Member Array Skolnick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead1026 View Post
    Rust was actually a West German ...
    You're right; I'm wrong.
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  8. #97
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    Well a short update.
    Like I said, our Security Team is more or less a secret. Secret as in we do not have a public list of our team posted or identification emblems or uniforms as who is on the team, or who is armed. The Church members know the Church has a Security Team. They just aren't sure who they are. We don't advertise.

    The young man in question was there last night, and the same scenario only he was late. I was in the foyer and met him
    I introduced myself and asked him a few simple questions. My research had given a few glimpses into his background. Former occupation and family members.

    His answers were very vague. His hands were super soft and I've shook fish with firmer grips.

    He sat down alone again, only this time his mother also came in even later and sat down one seat over Dr him. They never made eye contact or even as aid a thing to each other that I saw. I watched!

    I'm fact I sat a few rows behind him and tried to observe him as much as possible without being obvious. So they were there for about 20 minutes p dc an hour long bible study. There was only about 40 people at last night's bible study.

    When it was over he got up quickly and left as fast as possible. N it talking to anyone! His mom left right behind him. They never spoke, and he walked off from her so fast I'm still scratching my head.

    He jumped in his car and sped away. She did the same about what on it later


    I don't know what to do now. Obviously he didn't want to talk to anyone. His answers to my simple conversa were weak and confusing.

    Like, I hear you was a ( ) and now you work at ( ). How's that going? Did you like ( ) when you were up there working? All weird replys!

    I don't know what to do next. I'm not comfortable with what I know and don't know about this young man.

    (My research says he does he does not fit that career he is know for at all, based on his physical size and muscle tone. I mean, if you were talking to a Professional Football Player you'd expect them to be rock hard solid muscle and big guys. This man is the total opposite if his career expectations. EX; I'm a Retired Power Lineman, and I'm still built like a brick outhouse. 37 years of making a hard living givers one a certain ? Swagger? )


    I keep you'll updated. Pray for our Nation and stand guard!
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  9. #98
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    Seems like a coupla shattered hoomins...probably need nurturing and friends they can trust...those are the kind of hoomins who sometimes go violent/suicidal...proceed with Godly love and caution.

    I often hear the term "dysfunctional family." There're a lot of those these days.
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  10. #99
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    Well, he is probably not the atheistic/sadistic loner type. I doubt they come to church. The fact that he comes to church and again to Bible study could put him in the ask, seek and knock group. But since his family life seems to be so dysfunctional, and his personality so weak and strange, he doesn't fit in as others do - and puts you on alert. Authority figures probably make him extremely uneasy since he can't interact with his Mom and I'd bet the male influence in his life, if there was one was terrible. It's possible he never leaves his room and his computer. Any born again geek types in the Church to approach him and welcome him - with name recognition?

    Who knows? My Pastor says often that the Church is a home for the sick and the hurting. He is not going to relate to you and will probably back off as you've already seen. Maybe describe him to your Pastor and Youth Pastor and see if they know of someone he might befriend and feel more comfortable with.
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  11. #100
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Maybe offer to buy a coffee at the local Starbucks. You could use a premise of being the old guy looking for some computer advice from someone younger who probably understands this stuff better, or something along those lines to break the ice. Chances are he's looking for support and acceptance, needs a friend, and doesn't know where or how to start.
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  12. #101
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snub44 View Post
    Seems like a coupla shattered hoomins...probably need nurturing and friends they can trust...those are the kind of hoomins who sometimes go violent/suicidal...proceed with Godly love and caution.

    I often hear the term "dysfunctional family." There're a lot of those these days.
    I'm agreeing with this caution. Without my actually meeting him and his mother, I would say it could go either way. I'll list my thoughts, good and not so good.

    1) I would be agreeable to trying to find someone who "fits" the guy better who could break the ice with him. Remember that the church is not a museum for saints on display, but a hospital for the sick. However, it is not an asylum for the criminally insane.

    2) I would be beyond suspicious if his "mother" showed up and acted such as you describe. Be aware that people who commit mass murder frequently work in unlikely pairs - they're not always like best buddies in high school. Now you're going to have to involve another team member to keep a close eye on her. I would bring your pastor into your confidence and share your concerns. The pastor can often elicit a completely different response from such people by greeting them in person. They will either feel hopeful at meeting someone who can help, or will get real antsy in his presence.

    3) This is the touchy part. IF more people than just you (and that part is critical - I cannot stress how critical) sense that "something isn't right", you need to get law enforcement involved. They are the ones who can actually demand identification and check criminal backgrounds. Be aware that this step is more than likely going to be a make or break thing. If they are not on the up and up, you may avert something bad. If they are okay and simply deeply troubled, but not a threat, they will likely leave and you'll never see them again. Some church members may become angry that anyone gets treated like that. Hopefully others will understand. It is a risky thing which can cost you and your church, but if there is a better way to deal with the situation, I'm not aware of it.

    At the very least, you need to enlist some people who will really pray about the situation - and don't divulge anything to anyone outside the team and the pastor. Security is absolutely critical. Finally, if others sense a real problem, don't let the possible issues stop you from doing what has to be done.

    I'm praying that these are people needing a hospital and they've come to the right place.
    Last edited by OldChap; April 25th, 2019 at 02:18 PM.
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  13. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt58 View Post
    Well a short update.
    Like I said, our Security Team is more or less a secret. Secret as in we do not have a public list of our team posted or identification emblems or uniforms as who is on the team, or who is armed. The Church members know the Church has a Security Team. They just aren't sure who they are. We don't advertise.

    The young man in question was there last night, and the same scenario only he was late. I was in the foyer and met him
    I introduced myself and asked him a few simple questions. My research had given a few glimpses into his background. Former occupation and family members.

    His answers were very vague. His hands were super soft and I've shook fish with firmer grips.

    He sat down alone again, only this time his mother also came in even later and sat down one seat over Dr him. They never made eye contact or even as aid a thing to each other that I saw. I watched!

    I'm fact I sat a few rows behind him and tried to observe him as much as possible without being obvious. So they were there for about 20 minutes p dc an hour long bible study. There was only about 40 people at last night's bible study.

    When it was over he got up quickly and left as fast as possible. N it talking to anyone! His mom left right behind him. They never spoke, and he walked off from her so fast I'm still scratching my head.

    He jumped in his car and sped away. She did the same about what on it later


    I don't know what to do now. Obviously he didn't want to talk to anyone. His answers to my simple conversa were weak and confusing.

    Like, I hear you was a ( ) and now you work at ( ). How's that going? Did you like ( ) when you were up there working? All weird replys!

    I don't know what to do next. I'm not comfortable with what I know and don't know about this young man.

    (My research says he does he does not fit that career he is know for at all, based on his physical size and muscle tone. I mean, if you were talking to a Professional Football Player you'd expect them to be rock hard solid muscle and big guys. This man is the total opposite if his career expectations. EX; I'm a Retired Power Lineman, and I'm still built like a brick outhouse. 37 years of making a hard living givers one a certain ? Swagger? )


    I keep you'll updated. Pray for our Nation and stand guard!
    Reminds me of me when I first found myself in 12-step meetings. Who I am, what I do and why I am here was really nunya business. Churches, like whatever anonymous meetings, are among the places broken people go in an effort to find something to rebuild on.
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  14. #103
    Distinguished Member Array xXxHeavy's Avatar
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    .....or they go to Starbucks to dispose of their used needles.......want to go for coffee.....NG.
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  15. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXxHeavy View Post
    .....or they go to Starbucks to dispose of their used needles.......want to go for coffee.....NG.
    For sure. All kinds are attracted, for all kinds of reasons. I knew old timers who kept going to meetings simply because it was the only place they had a shot at companionship, intimate or otherwise.
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  16. #105
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Sounds like the guy may be tying to escape a helicopter mom.
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