Another LEO shoots homeowner/occupant - Page 4

Another LEO shoots homeowner/occupant

This is a discussion on Another LEO shoots homeowner/occupant within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Hopefully justice will be blind but fair....

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Thread: Another LEO shoots homeowner/occupant

  1. #46
    Nix
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    Hopefully justice will be blind but fair.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    If the shoe were on the other foot and she had killed the officer, people would be screaming about her not identifying her target, but since he’s an officer, it’s ok because he feared for his life or whatever.

    Yep, they would. It’s a double standard that cases like this will hopefully start to break down.
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  3. #48
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    The name of this sub forum is the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. This certainly falls under ugly.

    I'm not a cop; don't know what the proper procedure should have been when it comes to doing a welfare check at 2:30am in the morning in a home. All I know is this poor lady could have been any one of us. Any one of us who have weapons in our home for self-defense, hear noises that should not be there, and seek to investigate.


    She obviously had a gun because there were flashlights creeping around her house.

    This scenario reinforces for me the importance of calling 911 immediately. I had a 911 situation at home a few years ago and the operator asks me what i was wearing, where I was and further instructed me to put my weapons down because police were arriving. I would assume a 911 operator in her situation would be able to know that police were on scene? I am just assuming - anyone know?

    I'm not trying to 2nd guess the poor lady, all I am saying is this could have been any of us.
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  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by StripesDude View Post
    Many would shoot at someone for snooping outside their window . . .
    Really? You have vastly overstated or you’re talking about an entire ‘nother bunch of “many” than the many on DC.
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  6. #50
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    Just saw the video, and it's hard to not jump to a bad conclusion.

    If this was a welfare check, why not just knock on the door first? Why whisper and sneak through a shut fence gate? It looked like the main doors were open, but the storm/screen doors were closed, possibly locked too. There was no time allowed for the victim to comply. I can't tell from the video what the cop might have seen.
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  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by StripesDude View Post
    Many would shoot at someone for snooping outside their window, especially when they don’t identify themselves as a cop. .
    The smart ones won't.
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  8. #52
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    Another LEO shoots homeowner/occupant

    Quote Originally Posted by Nix View Post
    Would she be wrong to have a pistol in her hand when some unidentified guy is creeping around her house, peering in her windows? Would that justify killing her?

    Until further evidence convinces me otherwise, this looks like an incident caused by the Fort Worth PD.
    No, but the officer could argue he saw a gun. It simply makes an egregious screwup more palatable. He’s still in trouble, big time.

    I still think he may have seen a phone, rather than a gun.

    “PUT THE GUN DOWN!”

    “Wha ...?”

    BOOM
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  9. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    It’s her house. It doesn’t really matter.
    Yes it does. If it was locked away, she wasn’t holding it when she was shot, which makes a bad shoot even worse.
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  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMinSC View Post
    What a shame. It seems like she was very dedicated to teaching her AP science nerds. We need more STEM teachers, especially those that take t seriously like the victim apparently did.
    Not quite enough info to make a decision yet but looks pretty bad.

    Hopefully there will be justice for her(if in fact it is as bad as it looks). Never know. The incident here turned out to be a complete farce and cover-up by the Sheriffs Dept. The deputy went to the wrong house, entered a man's yard and shot him through his window. The dept lied about the incident and the truth was exposed when the body cam footage was released. Turns out the homeowner did noting wrong. The dept investigated itself and decided everything was cool. No charges or firing for the deputy that was on someone's property for no reason, did not have the blue lights on, did not identify himself and just decided that a homeowner needed to be shot through his own window.

    I had previously considered over penetration through barriers as something to avoid for home defense. Now I need to focus on HD with the ability to punch through barriers and soft body armor.

    https://abcnews4.com/news/local/offi...through-window

    From the article:
    Tench is heard screaming in pain, saying he had been shot twice. "Oh my god, call the cops please!"
    The deputy, standing in the yard away from the door, yells back, "I am the cops!"


    "You came to my house at 12 o'clock at night I'm sleeping," Tench said on the body camera video. Tench says he had to protect his home and then says "I can't believe you did this to me!"
    "We're not going to talk about this right now," Azzara[cop] responds calmly.


    The state of South Carolina has sanctioned the shooting of innocent homeowners inside their own homes:
    State agents investigated the shooting, and in a two-paragraph letter on Sept. 3, South Carolina Assistant Attorney General Jerrod Fussnecker said he reviewed their findings and decided Greenville County deputy Kevin Azzara was justified in shooting homeowner Dick Tench.

    Ok, fine. At least the rules are clear now. My home defense weapons and tactics have shifted accordingly.


    - isint this man gonna get like 50 million or something..?
    - that's a start...

    - i guess :(







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  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnius View Post
    No, it's not "reasonable" to shoot someone who has a firearm in hand without threatening you, while they're in their home.
    Legal gun owners are not there for police target practice.
    If this is the standard, then if the owner would have shot the police officer for showing up armed and unannounced in the middle of the night she should not have been charged either. Is that the standard?
    The deputy should go away for manslaughter. It was a bad decision, and unfortunately any one of us who made that decision would be in prison as well... that's the risk one takes when pulling the trigger.

    - LEGALLY the LEO in this can can argue that he reasonably feared for his life
    - he is LEO, the rules are different
    - if a leo reasonably feels the need to use force, then the law allows it
    - I get what you are saying, im simply saying there will be no charges.. not even manslaughter
    - this is not the guyger case where she was off duty

    - he responded to a call.. door open... no answer to his calls... sees sillouette with gun... under TX law for a LEO that falls under reasonable

    - he will definetly be fired because of course he is an 18 month n00b rookie
    - but there will be no charges
    - or they will do the whole political first degree murder charge knowing that they overcharged him to guarantee a future aquittal

  12. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAS1 View Post
    So, she's watching her 8 year old nephew and all the lights are on and the front door is wide open at 2:30 AM? The police respond and to me it would look like a crime in progress. .

    - thats what i mean by reasonable
    - obviously it's sloppy, rookie police work, but not criminal under TX law
    - as someone said, go back to the old days when becoming a cop was like becoming a firefighter... kinda exlusive and they didn't just take anyone who applied..



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  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shootnlead View Post
    If we make a mistake...WE GO TO JAIL...same rules don't apply to cops...what in HELL is right about that?

    Oh, my bad, I forgot there is a double standard. We citizens better know what we are doing...not so much for LEO.

    - there is a double-standard
    - but LEO's also have a very dangerous job in general day in and day out
    - hence the double-standard
    - not saying it's right or wrong but it's due to the nature of the job



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  14. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MB53 View Post
    The African American community is sick and tired of this repetitive scenario. And they should be.
    - same thing just happened to a European American man in South Carolina a few months back
    - same thing as here almost
    - he survived miraculously thank goodness
    - My old cop pal would be 70 if he was alive today, he was a cop from age 18 to 50...
    - I asked him in the early 2000's what he thought of cops at that time, and he'd always tell me bluntly "they're scared.... they're scared...."

    - I didn't understand it then, but now I do
    - bring back those tight, professional standards of the past and you'll see result



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  15. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlights View Post
    - in TX the law says 'reasonable' and in this case the officer can easily argue that it was reasonable to fear for his life under the circumstances (door open, no response, silouette figure with gun in hand)
    From Dallas Morning News
    The department said the officer perceived a threat before firing but hasn’t said what that threat was. A firearm was found inside a bedroom in the house, but authorities haven’t said whether Jefferson had been holding it when she was killed
    Why don't we wait for the facts to be made public instead of making them up?

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho41 View Post
    From Dallas Morning News


    Why don't we wait for the facts to be made public instead of making them up?

    - my point was it doesnt matter if the cop saw her with a gun or not
    - door open, no response, 'let me see your hands!', and thinks the silouette is pointing a weapon at him
    - not saying he was correct... obviously not
    - but under TX law all he needs to do is articulate how under those circumstances he reasonably feared that a burglar was inside and about to shoot him or pull a weapon and shoot him

    - gets a call for door open (supicious circumstances), comes to call sees door is indeed open, nobody answers his calls, someone inside looks like they are going for a weapon...

    - that's all reasonable for a LEO under these circumstances

    - IF the front door wasn't opened/ajar it woul be unreasonable to just shoot at sillouetess through windows... but I think the tragedy here will be legally justified

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