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Ever had to let ugly out to play?

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Thread: Ever had to let ugly out to play?

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array Rabbit212's Avatar
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    Isnt this thread running somewhere else??
    Those are my principles, and if you don't like them.....well, I have others.

  2. #17
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Let me say without revealing too much that I have had a lot of experience with "the ugly" in my life. And to deal with that, I've had to consult multiple professionals and do a lot of personal work and study. The best book I have found on the topic is "Why We Snap" by Douglas Fields. He is a neuroscientist who specializes in this topic. Some interesting things he has found through his research:
    • Whether you call it "The Ugly," Anger, Rage, etc. its neural paths can now be mapped through brain scans. These paths are distinctive and not like other thought patterns.
    • He has studied this in criminals and normal people who have become killers for no seeming reason, as well as war heroes and sports stars.
    • The neural paths for negative "ugly" behavior is the same path as for heroic "ugly" behavior, exactly the same. The difference is in the person's intent, their moral framework, their conscious decision making. "The ugly" makes a bad person do horrible things and a good person do great things and in some rare cases, it can make them do both, like a war hero who commits war crimes.
    • There are nine triggers for this pathway. I won't go into them, you'll have to read the book. But all "ugly" comes from one, or a combination, of these nine places.
    • It can be controlled if you understand it and work on it.

    I have seen both sides in H2H training. In basic self defense, like Model Mugging, you have to go through exercises to get the student in touch with their "ugly," so that in a life threatening situation, they can bring the level of violence required to survive. In the higher levels of the martial arts, there is a saying, "If your hand goes out, hold back your anger. If your anger goes out, hold back your hand." The ideas behind this are: 1) If you have mastered lethal force, "the ugly" can get you in trouble. 2) Really effective self defense is not swinging in anger, it is calmly reacting to the opponent, seeing your openings and attacking them. It is hard to be that precise if "the ugly" is in charge. 3) "The Ugly" takes a lot of energy, physically and emotionally. For the novice, it gives them strength, for the more developed, it can sap their strength.

    I think it's useful to find balance with this. Obviously, effective self defense, either with a gun or H2H, requires both calm and precision and paradoxically the spirit to do serious physical damage to another person. You can call that spirit lots of things, including "the ugly."
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

  3. #18
    Distinguished Member Array TSKnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LimaCharlie View Post
    Ugly is scary. We don't talk about ugly.
    Amen
    What I remember of Ugly is a total lack of emotion until he after he was gone. Nuff said.
    Democracy:
    Two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
    Freedom:
    A well armed lamb contesting the vote.

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array Scouse's Avatar
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    There are times when where you are, is where it is going to go bad! For those of us who read the signs, and act accordingly, you have a good chance of surviving. But unfortunately, you only know the signs by experience, you have been in SXXX, more or less like it before.

    Case in point. And I most likely mentioned this here before. Out for Supper on a visit to a town called St Helens, Lancashire England. 1968. Home for one week. From Canada. Staying at the Mother-in-laws. Left my bother boots with her, when we left for a new life in Australia. My Wife hated Australia, only stayed for 3 years.

    Had a sports Coat and slacks, but only old shoes, but the left behind boots, took a nice shine, crepe soles, hard toe caps, not steel. Friday night, headed out with Wife, Sister of same, her husband.
    Rented VW Beatle, Brother in law Tony. Worked with me once in the past, when I worked as a Bouncer at The Cavern Club, in Liverpool, he was useless!

    Noticed door opened in, no exit sign (no other way out I could see) just Toilets. This was a very lovely carpeted Indian Restaurant, The Moonglow. That scent I love, CURRY!

    The first table on left, two couples, eating like Yanks (Sorry!) shovelling food down with forks.
    Second booth, trouble! 4 young men, early 20s? White tees, jeans, at least the two I could see their legs. Empty plates, full ashtray, eating utensils on the plates. All eyes on our two lady's, good looking young Ladies! We were 4 as well, but two were woman! Classic runner quartet. Not paying. Then gone!

    Comment "Bit of alright there eh?" Tony? Oblivious. We were shown to a booth, across the room, the two untrained Ladies took the facing the door seat, Tony slid in first, me back to the door! But covered by the wooden backboard. As I was paying, I ordered. My Wife turned to the trio at the next round table, foul language, the young male, wiping his hands on the lace-edged table cloth.

    "You ought to be ashamed to call yourselves English" Oh Oh! All three were drunk. The young male said "Shurrup Missus!" I touched my Wifes shoe "Not our Business Irene" She took the hint, mouthpiece kept on though. I leaned out, curled my fingers for him, he shut up, leaned over I said: "sorry about that Jimmy, not my Wifes business, right?"

    He was happy to let that go, my 200lbs overmatched his 140lbs, and I was cold stone sober!
    As I had leaned out, I was in view of the 4 yoboes. One who said "If you can't fight, baldy, keep yer mouth shut" My Bald patch, still got that. "We are in bother here Tony." He went white, started to shake. All 6'4" of him, shoulders as wide as a barn door, but a coward. The two Ladies, both white as snow, the sister making squeaking sounds, like a kitten!

    Off Baby Sitting, with the second Wife of 26 years, later, Sorry.

    I wore glasses then. Dressed for an English night out, collar and tie, smart. Took a 10 shilling note out of my wallet, creased it down the middle stood up, started to walk towards the group (all still sitting) making a presentation of putting that note in my jacket pocket (All 4 still sitting) me still smiling.

    Six feet away! The talker jumped up, fists coming up! I flat kicked him between his fists, heel landing. Felt ribs cave in.
    He flew backwards, his buddy was facing me, but behind him. Blood sprayed out in a fan! That must of hurt.
    The other outside buddy was also now facing the room, hands on knees as a fat person would stand... But he was not fat. My overhand right fist crushed his nose, I felt it collapse. Nostrils like a hosepipe, streaming blood.
    The remanding one of the group, climbed over the partition, now walking on the two couples table.

    The did not take kindly to that exercise! And all proceeded to stab him, with said forks. He yelped, and skipped his way to the end of the table, jumped off, just in time to take a nice wooden chair in his left arm, it snapped just below the elbow. A young lad was sitting with his parents, watching all this, a piece of meat on his fork, eyes and mouth wide open. I helped them all leave, with the chair, now with only three legs, it would not stand up!

    As the door opened in, each time they tried to leave, they surged towards me, another wack with the chair.

    They did leave. The young chap said "Just like Gunsmoke" I saw the phone, dialled 999 "St Helens Police Station"
    "I am in the Moonglow, and was just attacked by 4 ruffians" "Do you need medical assistance, Sir?" No said I.

    The older Gentle Man, clasping his hands together, kept repeating "Thank you" For depositing two pints of blood in his booth? Non on me. "You wus smiling all the time," said the young Lad, now chewing.
    That funny siren sound England!. There was only two standing, me and the Manager, both the Officers came to me!

    "Are you injured, Sir?" No Officer. "Constable Sir, you are not in America" he started to talk into his jacket mounted Mic. Went outside, his partner walked over to me, looking at me, saying nothing.
    Senior Officer came back in.

    "These 4 Ruffians, all early twenties? White tees, trainers, and jeans?" "Yes, I said" He pointed at the window, they are
    1000M that way, Cottage Hospital Emerg" consulted his little notebook. "Two broken noses, one broken arm, three broken ribs, same person and various cuts, and contusions" And you were attacked? "I Said Yes Officer" again, corrected again. We all 4 were escorted outside, over to the VW.

    "Mr H. This is the only Indian in St Helens, pointing, there are dozens in Liverpool, 8 miles away Goodnight." Took the hint, and left.

    Can not imagine what would have happened now? Or if I would have let them clear their seats?

    Ugly? Not really.
    Last edited by Scouse; May 23rd, 2019 at 07:27 AM.
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  5. #20
    Senior Member Array Holmes375's Avatar
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    I've always called him 'my monster'. I believe many, if not most, have their own. Monsters do what needs be done without the distraction of emotion or civil boundaries. Monsters can do what normal men cannot.

    Monsters require careful administration by their host.
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  6. #21
    VIP Member Array Struckat's Avatar
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    Not since our oldest son moved out...
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    Read our government's plan to destroy the Constitution.
    https://sustainabledevelopment.un.or...ormingourworld

  7. #22
    Distinguished Member Array Cornhusker95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    Let me say without revealing too much that I have had a lot of experience with "the ugly" in my life. And to deal with that, I've had to consult multiple professionals and do a lot of personal work and study. The best book I have found on the topic is "Why We Snap" by Douglas Fields. He is a neuroscientist who specializes in this topic. Some interesting things he has found through his research:
    • Whether you call it "The Ugly," Anger, Rage, etc. its neural paths can now be mapped through brain scans. These paths are distinctive and not like other thought patterns.
    • He has studied this in criminals and normal people who have become killers for no seeming reason, as well as war heroes and sports stars.
    • The neural paths for negative "ugly" behavior is the same path as for heroic "ugly" behavior, exactly the same. The difference is in the person's intent, their moral framework, their conscious decision making. "The ugly" makes a bad person do horrible things and a good person do great things and in some rare cases, it can make them do both, like a war hero who commits war crimes.
    • There are nine triggers for this pathway. I won't go into them, you'll have to read the book. But all "ugly" comes from one, or a combination, of these nine places.
    • It can be controlled if you understand it and work on it.

    I have seen both sides in H2H training. In basic self defense, like Model Mugging, you have to go through exercises to get the student in touch with their "ugly," so that in a life threatening situation, they can bring the level of violence required to survive. In the higher levels of the martial arts, there is a saying, "If your hand goes out, hold back your anger. If your anger goes out, hold back your hand." The ideas behind this are: 1) If you have mastered lethal force, "the ugly" can get you in trouble. 2) Really effective self defense is not swinging in anger, it is calmly reacting to the opponent, seeing your openings and attacking them. It is hard to be that precise if "the ugly" is in charge. 3) "The Ugly" takes a lot of energy, physically and emotionally. For the novice, it gives them strength, for the more developed, it can sap their strength.

    I think it's useful to find balance with this. Obviously, effective self defense, either with a gun or H2H, requires both calm and precision and paradoxically the spirit to do serious physical damage to another person. You can call that spirit lots of things, including "the ugly."
    I prefer.... Do what you gotta do when you gotta do it....It is a lot more simple that way....You either have what it takes or you don't.
    If you feel you don't then running is your best option if you are able.

  8. #23
    Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Mr. Ugly resides in an icy cold place.
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    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammeow View Post
    Can I plead the 5th?

    Or maybe I need a 5th.
    OV, hook me up.
    Best I can do on short notice.
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    I never referred to it as my Ugly side, it was my Terminator side. Spent many years keeping It in check. A few have seen a glimpse of It.

    I've mellowed as I've aged, but the Terminator still exists. I don't think it will ever go away, just asleep. It doesn't wake up nice.
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    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  10. #25
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    Ugly hasn't had to come out to play. His cousins, Mean and Nasty, have been able to get the job done without him.
    MY RIGHTS DON'T END WHERE YOUR FEELINGS BEGIN

    The situation will NEVER BE THE WAY YOU WANT, it WILL BE THE WAY IT IS. You must be FLEXIBLE ENOUGH TO ADAPT and just "DEAL WITH IT".

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array scottync's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by halem1 View Post
    From the thread title I thought this was going to be a Glock thread!
    Now that's funny, don't care who you are.
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  12. #27
    Senior Member Array redmc's Avatar
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    In my life time there were two instances I can remember where I didn't let ugly out but he got out anyway. Its scary now when I think of it.
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  13. #28
    Member Array Vexmaw's Avatar
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    I've been trying to get "Ugly" off my shoulder for years now. He's not leaving.
    Last edited by Vexmaw; May 22nd, 2019 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Typo
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  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array patkelly4370's Avatar
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    Through situational awareness "the ugly" has not had to go to work.
    But there has been an instance or two where "the ugly" simmering in the background has dissuaded individuals from continuing their course of action.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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  15. #30
    Senior Member Array SFury's Avatar
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    I was born with a lot of rage, and little fear. I learned early on to fight the anger, and keep it in. There have been times when I could tell people thought of me as a target. Once I sense danger, I let the rage partially out. Apparently the change is outwardly noticeable. I've seen groups of thugs (at the Mall of America in the Twin Cities) turn and move away from me and my friend. They were looking at me as they moved away.


    I was born to be a predator. My little brother doesn't have that aspect within him. Sometimes I think he's the lucky one.
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