The Socialism argument - Page 2

The Socialism argument

This is a discussion on The Socialism argument within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Hatchee There are extremely few "socialist" states. Denmark & Sweden are often held up as successful examples but neither is socialist. They ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hatchee View Post
    There are extremely few "socialist" states. Denmark & Sweden are often held up as successful examples but neither is socialist. They both have strong capitalist structures with a lot of "social programs". The implementation of social programs is NOT socialism. It is the redistribution of wealth through various methods.

    None of the Democratic presidential candidates actually advocate the government taking over the means of production and distribution of goods and services with the elimination of private sector businesses with the possible exception of our health care system. Even Bernie, who has no idea what he is ever talking about regarding economics/business, advocates true socialism....Democratic Socialism or otherwise.

    So, the real question: is it pure "socialism" that the center and right object to or the expansion of "social programs" via redistributive policies, which are two distinctly different models?

    ETA: It would IMO be extremely helpful if the media and politicians began using the proper terminology and called all these progressive ideas what they are....redistribution on wealth. The general public might understand what they are actually advocating.
    You're correct. Fully blown socialism would not serve their plans; at least not right away. They desperately need and require the economic engine of this nation to provide the revenues which they would need to implement their initial utopia. The problem may well arise when, if they get what they profess they want, things don't happen as quickly as they had hoped and the free market begins to tank. Revenues begin to shrink and the nation stirs with anger and frustration. The more extreme on the left see all of this as an opportunity to take things further and begin nationalizing private businesses, beginning with larger corporations first. The snowball effect will bring about the domino effect, the results of which could mirror what took place in Russia in the early part of the 20th century. All that does is make things ripe for situations none of us would entertain.
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    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    The continuum of economic systems has the Communism, the worst form of Socialism, at one end and unbridles capitalism on the other end. Somewhere in between we have the United States of America with all its warts. I am staying here and hoping to contribute to a system with safety nets for the needy and restrictions on the greedy. All things in moderation.

    Socialism would be a revolution in America. One never knows how a revolution will end up. I prefer evolution because an believe all lasting and good change is incremental not revolutionary. Right now in the US the 10% greedy are getting the most bang for the buck. But what goes around comes around. Someday we common folk will get a little bigger share of the pie but not through socialism.
    I'm here to tell you that the adage that anyone can make it in the United States and be successful is absolutely true. I am living proof of that. All it takes is time and the motivation and will to make it happen.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Senior Member Array KILTED COWBOY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPS1980 View Post
    I feel sad when I hear people talk in absolute terms.
    I see most things as black or white, never saw much in the grey area.
    But that is just my view on life. I respect your opinion sir.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    You're correct. Fully blown socialism would not serve their plans; at least not right away. They desperately need and require the economic engine of this nation to provide the revenues which they would need to implement their initial utopia. The problem may well arise when, if they get what they profess they want, things don't happen as quickly as they had hoped and the free market begins to tank. Revenues begin to shrink and the nation stirs with anger and frustration. The more extreme on the left see all of this as an opportunity to take things further and begin nationalizing private businesses, beginning with larger corporations first. The snowball effect will bring about the domino effect, the results of which could mirror what took place in Russia in the early part of the 20th century. All that does is make things ripe for situations none of us would entertain.
    Where to begin? If they get what they want the economy will tank as you describe. The best barrier to the events which you describe is exactly what is currently taking place....a larger section of the population moving into the middle class or improving their economic condition due to an expanding/prosperous economy. The antitheses is the direction that the D party is moving (and possibly our uncontrolled immigration). It might also be noted that our right to bear arms may very well come into play....but I sure hope not!!!!

    ....opportunity to take things further and begin nationalizing private businesses, beginning with larger corporations first.... IMO, that will not happen in the USA, but that is a weekend long discussion to be had over a case of beer!
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    I see most things as black or white, never saw much in the grey area.
    But that is just my view on life. I respect your opinion sir.
    My posts really should start with a disclaimer.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoyVA View Post
    I'm here to tell you that the adage that anyone can make it in the United States and be successful is absolutely true. I am living proof of that. All it takes is time and the motivation and will to make it happen.
    Agreed. I lived that dream. Marines from age 17 through 27. Professional news photographer from 28 to 46. CEO of national photographers association from 47 to 61. Then wrote five books and served as a copyright damages expert in federal court. Not bad for HS education only. If I learned one thing in the Corps it was that hard work pays off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    You just specified the difference that you say does not exist and explains why I said communism is the worst form of socialism.
    Yeah, communism is worse & both are a form of statism.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/statism

    P.S. is you're first name Richard?...a cousin of mine was a combat photographer during the time you served.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by InVegas View Post
    Yeah, communism is worse & both are a form of statism.
    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/statism

    P.S. is you're first name Richard?...a cousin of mine was a combat photographer during the time you served.
    I can assure you that I am not your cousin. All my cousins were female except for one who I see regularly and he hates guns.
    "You don't hurt them if you don't hit them." Lt. Gen. Lewis "Chesty" Puller, USMC Retired

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    Had a conversation with a liberal acquaintance about thieves. He hates thieves. With a passion. How dare anyone break into his house and steal the stuff he worked hard to pay for. But he thinks it is just fine for rich people to have to pay for programs that give him free stuff.

    I don't understand how some people's minds work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    I can assure you that I am not your cousin. All my cousins were female except for one who I see regularly and he hates guns.
    Still a coincidence. My mos was that of a offset press operator...'68-'69. Oh,I try to stay away from those who hate guns lol.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by InVegas View Post
    Still a coincidence. My mos was that of a offset press operator...'68-'69. Oh,I try to stay away from those who hate guns lol.
    What is an offset press operator? I do not think we had them in the Corps but the Marines and Army have different MOs designations.
    "You don't hurt them if you don't hit them." Lt. Gen. Lewis "Chesty" Puller, USMC Retired

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    What is an offset press operator? I do not think we had them in the Corps but the Marines and Army have different MOs designations.
    My mos was 83F20. Here's the press (a Chief 29) I had to set up and run...up to a 28x28" sheet. We did mostly propaganda fliers to be dropped over Nam, as well as official Army forms and documents. This was in Yokohama '68-'69
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPS1980 View Post
    My posts really should start with a disclaimer.....
    Man you had me going for a while.
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  14. #29
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    Wow, that is too cool. I had no idea who printed those flyers. I think Marines forget what it takes to full serve a military organization because the Navy does everything we do not do and provides everything we do not have. At the end of the day everyone who contributes to the effort is important. Thanks for being a cog in the wheel we made.
    "You don't hurt them if you don't hit them." Lt. Gen. Lewis "Chesty" Puller, USMC Retired

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    Problem with Denmark & Sweden etc. is that they think they are getting many benefits for free, without realizing they are paying for it up front in increased taxes, tariffs etc. 45-50%, and not having the choices that we have, but... beautiful countries.
    My brother in law was a hospital admin guy over there & had to decide what doctor & when you could receive what treatment/operation & when.
    It ain't all peachy.
    He passed at a young age. Cerebral hemorrhage in his living room.

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