Big trouble in the Persian Gulf today - Page 4

Big trouble in the Persian Gulf today

This is a discussion on Big trouble in the Persian Gulf today within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by jmf552 It may be madness, but ironically MAD has worked for over 70 years and there have been situations where governments have ...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array MMinSC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    It may be madness, but ironically MAD has worked for over 70 years and there have been situations where governments have had the capability, the motive and the ruthlessness to pull the trigger, yet they haven't.
    MAD worked when both sides wanted to win, not die. The Soviets were at least rational civilized people. I am not sure MAD works when one side is barbarians devoted to an 800 year old death cult. If one side is happy to be martyrs, the "Mutually Assured" part of MAD becomes less effective.
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  2. #47
    Member Array BullsI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMinSC View Post
    MAD worked when both sides wanted to win, not die. The Soviets were at least rational civilized people. I am not sure MAD works when one side is barbarians devoted to an 800 year old death cult. If one side is happy to be martyrs, the "Mutually Assured" part of MAD becomes less effective.
    Exactly, which is why the Pentagon is not averse to taking out Iran before it becomes impossible to do so (ditto for N. Korea, albeit a little late in the game). And of course this is extra true for Israel and the Saudis, not to mention Europe, because they are so vulnerable to Iran and the language coming out of Iran is so fanatically hostile to the Sunnis and the West.

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BullsI View Post
    Exactly, which is why the Pentagon is not averse to taking out Iran before it becomes impossible to do. And of course this is extra true for Israel and the Saudis, not to mention Europe, because they are so vulnerable to Iran and the language coming out of Iran is so fanatically hostile to the Sunnis and the West.
    We got a lot of intel and talked quite a bit about the Iranian Islamic regime during the eight months I spent in the Indian Ocean. You may be right, but from what I know about them, the "death cult" ethic seems to apply only to the foot soldiers. The leaders act like despots anywhere, only concerned with staying in power and not caring who gets sacrificed to make that happen. I don't see the leadership throwing themselves on their swords.
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  4. #49
    Member Array pskys2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    Earlier the USS Boxer forced an Iranian drone to crash when it came within 1000yds.
    Today Friday the Iranians seized a UK flagged tanker in international waters, and a hour later seized a Liberian flagged tanker.
    Things a fixin to heat up SHTF time?
    Please pray for our Sailors and Marines who may be in harms way protecting the worlds freedom to navigate.
    Hate war. But it may be time the ayatollah and revolutionary guard learn a lesson they may not soon forget.
    Thank God Hillary is not the President.
    Didn't know the USS Boxer was still in service. My maternal Uncle, R.I.P., served on it during the Korean War.

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    It may be madness, but ironically MAD has worked for over 70 years and there have been situations where governments have had the capability, the motive and the ruthlessness to pull the trigger, yet they haven't.
    Yeah...It is difficult to imagine how much fun it would be to get the contents of 14 Ohio class SSBN's fired at you. Each boat with 24 Trident D-5 missiles, each missile carrying up to twelve - 300-475 Kiloton W-76 or W-88 MIRVs (Hiroshima was 15 Kilotons)

    That is 4032 warheads with almost 2 BILLION tons of explosives on board. Enough to make for a very bad day indeed.

    @pskys2 Different ship. LHD-4 USS Boxer was launched in 1993 and commissioned in 1995.
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  6. #51
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    In my opinion Iranís ship seizures are meant to bait - even dare - the west to start shooting because our economic sanctions are having a debilitating impact on their economy.

    Letís first get the tankers and their crews back, then start escorting commercial shipping through the Strait of Hormuz. Amp-up the sanctions and let internal forces bring down the ahatollahs.

    Any more nonsense on their part and we turn their ports and airfields into glass.
    ďI come in peace. I didnít bring artillery. But Iím pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you [mess] with me, Iíll kill you all."
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  7. #52
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Two things I think might be interim solutions. One is the old convey escort system. Have all the merchant ships form up in Saudi or UAE territorial waters and go in formation through the straits with military ship escorts and air cover.

    Another old solution might be armed merchant ships. It's been used successfully against pirates recently, but would have to be ramped up and updated for the Iranians. The UK tanker was taken by Revolutionary Guard commandos fast roping from helicopters onto the deck. Imagine of there had been a squad of SAS troopers with a few shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles onboard that tanker. My guess is the Iranians would only make that mistake once.
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    It doesn't necessarily mean USA has to step in for the Brit ship.
    Don't think I would discount the Limey's capabilities.
    They have a bunch of professional bad asses, for centuries.

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    Distinguished Member Array Scouse's Avatar
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    James ďMad DogĒ Mattis I met this General in Florida a few years ago. He had Body Guards in vests, shoulder holsters. Most of the people in the hall, an Indian Casino. I was on the Board of IALEFI.
    The speech was not intended for Newspaper Reporters or non-Citizen Cops. As I was neither! I was stopped at the door.

    The General walked over to see who was being stopped! Asked me a question, slapped me on the shoulder I was in. His speech was virulently anti Government, big time.

    A buddy of mine was at this Conference, a Police Sgt. from Florida. He was in his Duty Car. And dropped his "Buzz Gun" off at my Room, he was going out for a drink. I stuck it under the bed.
    My Wife said what is that? I said a machine gun. "UNDER OUR BED!" I said they do not fire on their own!
    Not that happy even.

    The management thanked us as we headed home. With all the Police Vehicles. No crime that week.

  10. #55
    Member Array pskys2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Yeah...It is difficult to imagine how much fun it would be to get the contents of 14 Ohio class SSBN's fired at you. Each boat with 24 Trident D-5 missiles, each missile carrying up to twelve - 300-475 Kiloton W-76 or W-88 MIRVs (Hiroshima was 15 Kilotons)

    That is 4032 warheads with almost 2 BILLION tons of explosives on board. Enough to make for a very bad day indeed.

    @pskys2 Different ship. LHD-4 USS Boxer was launched in 1993 and commissioned in 1995.
    Thanks, you prompted me to google USS Boxer, CV-21 (5th named) had an interesting carrer. LHD-4 seems to be also having an interesting time. Thanks again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Instymp View Post
    It doesn't necessarily mean USA has to step in for the Brit ship.
    Don't think I would discount the Limey's capabilities.
    They have a bunch of professional bad asses, for centuries.
    I think it is wrong to assume the Brits are doing nothing. They are not afraid to engage, but they do so wisely and on their own time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I think it is wrong to assume the Brits are doing nothing. They are not afraid to engage, but they do so wisely and on their own time.
    Thanks for translating my post.
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    Senior Member Array Frodebro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    I'm not as patient as I used to be. People used to say, "Bomb them back to the stone age." In the case of Iran they're already there, so they'll have to think up something else.
    How about "Bomb the entire country until it is forty feet below sea level"?
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Instymp View Post
    Thanks for translating my post.
    Anytime...
    Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon on the loose.
    Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frodebro View Post
    How about "Bomb the entire country until it is forty feet below sea level"?
    Persia is more than the crazies who call the shots there now and make up a tiny blip in the history of that ancient land. I'd rather we somehow accomplish the task without decimating that civilization.
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