Yet another Walmart shooting - Page 7

Yet another Walmart shooting

This is a discussion on Yet another Walmart shooting within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Mike1956 I share your frustration. Glock guy was five hundred yards away, yet is being hailed for saving young lives. The calculus ...

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  1. #91
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I share your frustration. Glock guy was five hundred yards away, yet is being hailed for saving young lives. The calculus here is lost on me.
    A 500 yard aimed shot is unlikely. A wild round at 500 yards could easily happen and could easily be deadly.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

  2. #92
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    Contrary to popular belief. LTC holders are a small percentage of the population.
    Not everyone down here carries.
    What I donít understand is the sheepish attitude of everyone.
    For him to shoot so many in such a short time it must have been crowded.
    No one charged this guy?
    Had to be people on his six and all around him.
    Only takes 1-2 guys even unarmed to take him down.
    If Iím going down it will not be shot in the back running.
    I am not sure what is going to happen now.
    I feel bad, knee jerk gun laws coming, especially with the election around the corner.
    If you donít have rifles you want, might be time to get it.
    Then just have to worry about the confiscations
    I, for one, will not arm chair quarterback average citizens in a deadly situation. Everyone has to make their own choice. I also will not conflate that with the coming calls for gun restrictions. If someone is in that situation, the larger political situation should be the last thing on their minds. Also, the anti-gunners will be calling for more laws no matter what. If an armed defender did take him down, the media would play it down. If an armed defender tried, but got killed in the process, they would leverage that.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

  3. #93
    VIP Member Array maxwell97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonker1986 View Post
    one guy armed with a Glock 9mm helped evacuate children out of the mall. While that action is to be applauded, I have not seen where anyone actually tried to engage the shooter. And if one member here chimes in that it is "not my responsibility to engage active shooters, but only to protect myself and my family", I swear to God I will hurl all over my keyboard. Another 20 people killed, and I am sure there were armed people in that mall that did nothing. Apparently having a concealed weapons license means something entirely different to me than so many others. But not to worry. Tonight another mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio. We won't have to worry about having the second Amendment around for much longer with the complete apathy on the part of gun owners and concealed carry licensees nationwide. It will soon be history.
    Itís likely that there were more armed people in the area. I heard there may have been a few thousand people in the Wal-Mart, so perhaps ten or so actually carrying weapons, most likely small hard-to-shoot weapons, with a few hours of training on average, with no legal protections applying if their intervention goes wrong. Possibly remembering that the last time an armed citizen tried to stop a shooter at a Wal-Mart, he simply got shot dead by a hidden accomplice.

    Armed citizens certainly can stop these things, but expecting it is a bit much. Iíve always felt that the pro-gun side put too much emphasis on lone heroes as the solution to mass shootings, and here it will bite us in the butt. Antis are already crowing about how all the guns in Texas didnít help the situation.

    Mass killings arenít the result of too many guns or too few guns. They come from a decadent culture, which canít be fixed with a sound bite or a law. But the Bill of Rights is not intended to solve social problems, and the political question remains the same as always: are people prepared to give up freedom for the illusion of security? I donít think so, but weíll see.
    "Lots of ways to help people. Sometimes heal patients; sometimes shoot dangerous people. Either way helps."
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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMinSC View Post
    Attachment 299708



    gotta love the meme generator app!
    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Red View Post
    The shooter drove more than 600 miles from a Dallas suburb to that El Paso Walmart in order to randomly murder Latinos he saw as "invaders."

    Where does all this irrational hatred come from?
    Yes, and unfortunately, the rush to blame Trump, NRA, mental illness, any person who owns a gun etc. is awful.

    Hatred, like addiction, doesn't discriminate based on politics, socioeconomic status, or race. The immediate blame game, based on agenda & politics, is terrible.

    Whether it be white nationalism or left-wing nuts shooting-up a ball field or attacking an ICE facility, hatred has infected the heart.
    MMinSC and Texas Red like this.

  5. #95
    Senior Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonker1986 View Post
    one guy armed with a Glock 9mm helped evacuate children out of the mall. While that action is to be applauded, I have not seen where anyone actually tried to engage the shooter.
    THE SHOOTING WASN'T AT THE MALL!!!!!! He was nowhere near the shooter. He was on the backside of the mall from Walmart and Walmart is located hundreds of yards from the mall.

    So what if he had a gun. Fat lot of good it did at the shooting that was at a completely different location.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    Itís likely that there were more armed people in the area. I heard there may have been a few thousand people in the Wal-Mart, so perhaps ten or so actually carrying weapons, most likely small hard-to-shoot weapons, with a few hours of training on average, with no legal protections applying if their intervention goes wrong. Possibly remembering that the last time an armed citizen tried to stop a shooter at a Wal-Mart, he simply got shot dead by a hidden accomplice.

    Armed citizens certainly can stop these things, but expecting it is a bit much. Iíve always felt that the pro-gun side put too much emphasis on lone heroes as the solution to mass shootings, and here it will bite us in the butt. Antis are already crowing about how all the guns in Texas didnít help the situation.
    More than likely there were 10 or so people who had LTCs, not that were actually carrying. The number of people actually carrying was probably 1 or 2. 80-90% with LTCs don't carry most of the time. I have seen this time and time again in LTC classes. They want to be able to carry when they travel or when they are going to the bad side of town, but they don't carry during normal activities.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

  6. #96
    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxwell97 View Post
    Itís likely that there were more armed people in the area. I heard there may have been a few thousand people in the Wal-Mart, so perhaps ten or so actually carrying weapons, most likely small hard-to-shoot weapons, with a few hours of training on average, with no legal protections applying if their intervention goes wrong. Possibly remembering that the last time an armed citizen tried to stop a shooter at a Wal-Mart, he simply got shot dead by a hidden accomplice.
    I read that city is nearly 80% hispanic, I'm guessing there are relatively fewer CC permits issued there, how many of those people can/want to pass a written test and shooting test, then go to their local sheriff for a background check for a permit?
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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonCents View Post
    I read that city is nearly 80% hispanic, I'm guessing there are relatively fewer CC permits issued there, how many of those people can/want to pass a written test and shooting test, then go to their local sheriff for a background check for a permit?
    Being Hispanic has nothing to do with wanting or being able to pass written tests and shooting tests. Background checks are carried out by the state, not the local sheriff.
    KILTED COWBOY likes this.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

  8. #98
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    Every single talking head on the Sunday shows so far is saying we have a huge problem with white nationalist terrorism .
    One going so far as calling it white terrorism.
    And not just the left leaning heads.

  9. #99
    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    Being Hispanic has nothing to do with wanting or being able to pass written tests and shooting tests. Background checks are carried out by the state, not the local sheriff.
    my point still stands on reasons why there may not be many CCpermit holders in that city, high population of Mexicans, many don't know english to take a test, and many would not want to have the state do an ID background check. I don't think its offensive or taboo guessing that a large chunk of that city has many illegals.

  10. #100
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zonker1986 View Post
    one guy armed with a Glock 9mm helped evacuate children out of the mall. While that action is to be applauded, I have not seen where anyone actually tried to engage the shooter. And if one member here chimes in that it is "not my responsibility to engage active shooters, but only to protect myself and my family", I swear to God I will hurl all over my keyboard. Another 20 people killed, and I am sure there were armed people in that mall that did nothing. Apparently having a concealed weapons license means something entirely different to me than so many others. But not to worry. Tonight another mass shooting in Dayton, Ohio. We won't have to worry about having the second Amendment around for much longer with the complete apathy on the part of gun owners and concealed carry licensees nationwide. It will soon be history.
    Ok, Iíll bite. Most people including myself got our permits for ourselves, not for people who are unwilling to protect themselves. Thatís not to say that neither me or anyone else will engage a bad guy, but other people did not once cross my mind when I decided to carry, or even a single day out of the thousands that I have woke up and put a gun on my hip. The guy may have been out of the Walmart building but he did what he could from where he was. I read somewhere else that the killer left the building and drove away and was stopped later. It would have been a damn shame if he had left Walmart and gone to the mall. It appears police thought it was important enough to lock down the mall as well. Hard to know exactly what he heard or thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas Red View Post
    The shooter drove more than 600 miles from a Dallas suburb to that El Paso Walmart in order to randomly murder Latinos he saw as "invaders."

    Where does all this irrational hatred come from?
    I keep hearing the race narrative, but also heard that he was firing at random. Whatís going to happen when it turns out not all of the victims were Mexican?

    Quote Originally Posted by KILTED COWBOY View Post
    Contrary to popular belief. LTC holders are a small percentage of the population.
    Not everyone down here carries.
    What I donít understand is the sheepish attitude of everyone.
    For him to shoot so many in such a short time it must have been crowded.
    No one charged this guy?
    Had to be people on his six and all around him.
    Only takes 1-2 guys even unarmed to take him down.
    If Iím going down it will not be shot in the back running.
    I am not sure what is going to happen now.
    I feel bad, knee jerk gun laws coming, especially with the election around the corner.
    If you donít have rifles you want, might be time to get it.
    Then just have to worry about the confiscations
    Small percentage, but not that small. I think around 1% which means you are likely to cross paths with one or two in a Walmart, unless of course you are that one or two.
    We get the government we deserve.

  11. #101
    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    I wonder when the REAL discussion will ever really happen? Mental illness and related use/misuse of various prescribed psychotropic drugs? Those are the real underlying cause/problems but all focus is on the weapon/tool.

    El paso shooters father was a mental health professional to boot.
    Havok and KILTED COWBOY like this.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    A 500 yard aimed shot is unlikely. A wild round at 500 yards could easily happen and could easily be deadly.
    Perhaps, were it not for that shopping mall between him and the shooter.
    Double Naught Spy likes this.
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  13. #103
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Perhaps, were it not for that shopping mall between him and the shooter.
    But at that range, in the moment, can you be 100% sure exactly where the shots are being fired and how far away? And can you be sure there is only one shooter in one place? Are you saying the guy was not prudent in getting the kids to greater safety, or just that he doesn't deserve the "hero" appellation? the latter I would agree with.
    Attack Squadron 65 "Tigers", USS Eisenhower '80 - '83, peackeeping w/Iran, Libya, Lebanon and E. Europe

  14. #104
    Senior Member Array FAS1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    Cielo Vista Mall is not listed on Texas 30.06 as a GFZ.
    Simon Properties which owns the mall says "No Weapons". I don't know if it's posted, but imagine it is.

    https://www.simon.com/legal/code-of-conduct

    Last Updated: January 31, 2019

    Thank you for choosing a Simon shopper center as your destination for shopping, great food, and entertainment. It is our desire to provide you with an enjoyable and delightful shopping experience. We ask all of our guests to conduct themselves in a respectful way in accordance with the code of conduct and all laws and local ordinances.

    Wear appropriate clothing. Hoodies are acceptable as long as your face remains visible.
    Disruptive behavior is prohibited.
    No weapons.
    Possession of open alcoholic beverages except in designated areas is prohibited.
    No solicitation.
    No pets (except service animals).
    Engaging in non-commercial expressive activity not sponsored by the center is prohibited.
    Smoking except in designated areas is prohibited.
    No loitering.
    No photographs or video recordings of any kind for commercial use. Video is acceptable for non-commercial and non-disruptive purposes.
    Use of transmitters, radar, lasers, beacons, cellular triangulation, GPS, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, magnetic or barometric technologies, or geographic information systems of any kind to capture geographic location or spatial data for commercial use is prohibited.
    For our shoppers that are visiting one of our outdoor air Premium Outletsģ centers: Pets on leashes are allowed in these types of outdoor outlet centers, so please disregard #6 above.
    Overall: All Simon shopping centers expressly retain the right to revise or modify this code of conduct as necessary. Any exceptions to this code of conduct will be determined by local center management in its sole discretion.
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  15. #105
    Senior Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAS1 View Post
    Simon Properties which owns the mall says "No Weapons". I don't know if it's posted, but imagine it is.

    https://www.simon.com/legal/code-of-conduct
    You do realize that the shooting wasn't at the mall, right? The shooting was at the Walmart, hundreds of yards from the mall.

    Also, the signage you posted is not a legal Texas 30.06 or even 30.07 sign and does not legally prohibit the carrying of guns by LTC folks. It is a "feel good" sign for soccer moms and such. Management still retains the right to ask people they see with guns to leave, but otherwise, the sign has no bearing on anything.
    alsaqr likes this.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

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