Texas Shooting, At Least 21 Shot, 5 Dead - Page 2

Texas Shooting, At Least 21 Shot, 5 Dead

This is a discussion on Texas Shooting, At Least 21 Shot, 5 Dead within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy You can disagree about training not being necessary and that is fine. Skill does not come from training alone. ...

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Thread: Texas Shooting, At Least 21 Shot, 5 Dead

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array PhotonGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    You can disagree about training not being necessary and that is fine. Skill does not come from training alone.

    Most of the rifle shooters are engaging people at pistol capable distances. There are notable exceptions such as the US Tower shooter and Las Vegas, but then again, pistols didn't stop those shooters until people moved in to pistol distances.

    It wasn't luck that Vic Stacy landed multiple shots in his fight.

    So if you are dealing with pistol distances, then the platform used by the bad guy isn't the big issue. You aren't defeating the platform, you are defeating the person.

    Don't get me wrong. I have had 20 odd classes over the years as well. I am more than familiar with the training regime. Training is great and I do think people should get it, but also recognize that it is far from being the sole deciding factor in countless shootings.
    I suppose some skill can come from natural ability, like me with skeet and trap shooting, but you would have to have some instruction if you're going to use guns, if not for any other reason just so that you know how to handle a gun safely. What I see as a big problem in the gun world is lots of people carry guns who do not have adequate skill and as such they hurt the gun rights cause. Indeed a gun can do more harm than good if you don't know how to use it properly. If I was ever, God forbid, in a mass shooting and if I was carrying at the time the first thing I would do would be to seek cover, to try to get to a place where I can safely draw my weapon while avoiding being shot and where I can get a good shot at the shooter without hitting innocent bystanders. I would not just start blasting away as some people might. If the police arrived on the scene I would not engage the shooter even if I was carrying, I would retreat from the area and let the professionals deal with it.

    As for pistol distances they can sometimes overlap with rifle and shotgun distances. With most of the classes I've taken, generally speaking, fifteen yards is the maximum distance at which you would use a handgun and at that distance you would usually go for only body shots not head shots. That's not to say you can't land head shots at fifteen yards if you're skilled enough and if you're using a handgun in which you can do it with. That's also not to say that you can't land handgun shots on target at greater distances, I know an instructor who can hit a steel plate with a handgun shot at 200 yards, but 200 yards is generally considered rifle distance. The instructor who can land shots with handguns at that distance is very highly skilled, certainly much much more highly skilled than the average person.

    As for rifle shooters engaging people at pistol distances, I would think most bad guys who use rifles are going be firing on people who are further than 15 yards away. Some of their victims might be closer but not all of their victims are going to be 15 yards or closer, and 15 yards is generally the maximum distance for defenders using handguns, unless you're like the instructor mentioned above. So for a bad guy with a rifle, if one of his would be victims is 15 yards or closer AND happens to be carrying a handgun AND is willing and able to use it then he can be stopped, or if somebody who is further away who is carrying a handgun is skilled like the instructor I mentioned above.

    As in a case such as the Vegas shooting where Stephen Paddock opened fire on a country music concert and killed over 50 people, handguns would've been totally ineffective against him. Rifles would've been just as ineffective. Even if the concert goers had rifles the risk of hitting innocent bystanders in adjacent hotel rooms would've been too great a risk for them to shoot back. The gun control crowd screamed for more gun control in the wake of the tragedy but no amount of gun control, no matter how strict, would've stopped Stephen Paddock from killing all those people. There are some things that you really can't do much of anything about.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array PhotonGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    Fellows, take into consideration that a successful takedown of a rifle armed shooter is going to more or less successful depending upon who the rifleman is shooting at. If he is shooting at you, I can assure you that it will affect your accuracy unless you have developed the discipline necessary in a firefight. There is only thing worse than getting shot at. That is getting shot. Everyone knows that in their subconscious. It affects performance. So it one thing to take down a shooter that has his attention focused on someone other than you and another thing to do it when it is you being shot at. If you have had the experience of hearing the cracking sound of bullets flying past you, then you know what I mean.
    That's why if I was engaging a rifleman, or any shooter, I would first make sure I've got good cover and that Im in the safest position possible to engage the gunman.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    Fellows, take into consideration that a successful takedown of a rifle armed shooter is going to more or less successful depending upon who the rifleman is shooting at. If he is shooting at you, I can assure you that it will affect your accuracy unless you have developed the discipline necessary in a firefight. There is only thing worse than getting shot at. That is getting shot. Everyone knows that in their subconscious. It affects performance. So it one thing to take down a shooter that has his attention focused on someone other than you and another thing to do it when it is you being shot at. If you have had the experience of hearing the cracking sound of bullets flying past you, then you know what I mean.
    Well-stated my friend.

    Fire and maneuver would be a good response if the right prople are present.
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  4. #19
    Senior Member Array CommonCents's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    Fellows, take into consideration that a successful takedown of a rifle armed shooter is going to more or less successful depending upon who the rifleman is shooting at. If he is shooting at you, I can assure you that it will affect your accuracy unless you have developed the discipline necessary in a firefight. There is only thing worse than getting shot at. That is getting shot. Everyone knows that in their subconscious. It affects performance. So it one thing to take down a shooter that has his attention focused on someone other than you and another thing to do it when it is you being shot at. If you have had the experience of hearing the cracking sound of bullets flying past you, then you know what I mean.
    agree, but the good thing is most cowardly shooters choose "gun-free" zones and are not expecting any resistance. they run into the same problem when they get some return volleys.
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  5. #20
    Senior Member Array RonM0710's Avatar
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    They just announced that the shooter had an “AR TYPE” rifle at the Odessa News Conference.
    "Lets Be Careful Out There!"

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  6. #21
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    How do you know what he was using? I've yet to see anything in print or on local news on what he used.
    Because it had been mentioned that a rifle was used during the traffic stop. No mention of a pistol. Hence, I said at least a rifle being used.

    I don't recall where I saw it, but here is one of the reports from before I posted saying it was a rifle and an AR15 style at that.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...e-say-n1048656
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  7. #22
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    So, why are they being so tight-lipped with the identity of the jerk who did the shooting?
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    Because it had been mentioned that a rifle was used during the traffic stop. No mention of a pistol. Hence, I said at least a rifle being used.

    I don't recall where I saw it, but here is one of the reports from before I posted saying it was a rifle and an AR15 style at that.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...e-say-n1048656
    Thanks, I had not heard that.

    Now I did hear about an "AR style" weapon I believe was how that was termed, from the press conference this afternoon. I got the impression from the way the Sheriff worded that he may have had an AR pistol. That would be really bad as the media will jump all over that and drive the politics. Again, my impression not stated by authorities. Yet.
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  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonM0710 View Post
    They just announced that the shooter had an “AR TYPE” rifle at the Odessa News Conference.
    So this guy was driving down the road, being chased by police, and managed to shoot over 20 people with an AR at the same time?
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    So this guy was driving down the road, being chased by police, and managed to shoot over 20 people with an AR at the same time?
    ...and carjack a mail truck! What's wrong with this story?
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  11. #26
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    Officials. This is a ongoing active open still following up with witnesses on this 20 mile shooting not even close to having all the info. But we can say with absolute certainty with no doubt...……….He was the only suspect.
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  12. #27
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    I agree with Havok. It is highly unlikely the shooter could operate an automobile while fleeing from police and manage to aim a rifle good enough to hit anything. I have not seen any news reports that mention the weapon, however there have obviously been some aired. It remains to be seen if the shooter had an accomplice who was firing or exactly what type of weapon the shooter used. Any way it turns out it is going to be spun by the antis as more reason to grab all our guns. I also have family in that area, fortunately they are all safe.
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  13. #28
    Senior Member Array PhotonGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonCents View Post
    agree, but the good thing is most cowardly shooters choose "gun-free" zones and are not expecting any resistance. they run into the same problem when they get some return volleys.
    Not always. There was a case of a shooter who chose a police station as his target. He didn't last long, but shooters will sometimes choose such targets.
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  14. #29
    Senior Member Array PhotonGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CavemanBob View Post
    So, why are they being so tight-lipped with the identity of the jerk who did the shooting?
    Because the jerk doesn't deserve to be identified, he doesn't deserve the fame. I hope they never mention his name in the media.

  15. #30
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    Death toll has risen to seven.

    Death toll rises to seven in Texas shooting rampage; shooter identified

    PHOENIX – The mass shooter who killed at least seven people and wounded 22 in the Midland and Odessa area of Texas has been identified as 36-year-old Seth Ator.

    At a Sunday afternoon news conference, Odessa Police Chief Michael Gerke said police knew the shooter's identity, but refused to release it to the media. Gerke said he wouldn't give the mass shooter additional notoriety.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...or/2188123001/

    The shooter was later named in a Facebook post by the Odessa Police Department.

    The incident began when a gold-colored car was stopped by a Texas Department of Public Safety trooper for failing to signal.
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