ATF ruling that a receiver is treated like a firearm is now in jeopardy

ATF ruling that a receiver is treated like a firearm is now in jeopardy

This is a discussion on ATF ruling that a receiver is treated like a firearm is now in jeopardy within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I am oversimplifying this, but you have to read the article to get the gist of it. The ATF was investigating a man who ran ...

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Thread: ATF ruling that a receiver is treated like a firearm is now in jeopardy

  1. #1
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    ATF ruling that a receiver is treated like a firearm is now in jeopardy

    I am oversimplifying this, but you have to read the article to get the gist of it. The ATF was investigating a man who ran a business helping people make their own assault rifles. The case hinged on the fact that the receivers had no serial numbers. The man being investigated got a judge to declare that a receiver was not a firearm bd as such did not come under ATF jurisdiction. As a result ATF dropped the case rather than risk a decision that would negate its ruling about receivers. The man who helped numerous people build rifles for $1000 each got off. You have to read the story and watch the video to get the whole picture. Bottom line is that the matter seem to be an open Pandorra's Box.


    https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/11/us/ar...nvs/index.html
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    The ATF will simply state the AR upper receiver is now classified as a firearm and require it to be serialized. I would imagine a new "80% upper receiver" market will emerge.
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    One to watch.....
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    He was using 80% receivers, they aren't serialized and they aren't firearms, never have been. The same goes for 80% 1911 and Glock style frames. You can buy as many as you want and you can resell them as long a they haven't been completed. If he was "helping" people to finish their receivers and build their own rifles by directing them but they're doing the work the guns still don't require a serial number unless the owner is going to transfer it to someone else.
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    @WC145 Exactly...80% receivers which require machining to complete. The 80% receiver CANNOT EVER be just "assembled" in order to make a functional firearm. It MUST be further machined and therefore qualifies as a gun built by an individual, rather than the factory that cast or forged the receiver to begin with.

    The part, which surrounds the trigger area of an AR-15, requires some additional machining and drilling before it is considered a regulated firearm under the law.

    EDIT - I should have added...The ATF has been on very thin ice for some time with some of their "bureaucratic edicts" being interpreted (by them) as "law." The Constitution clearly sets forth what is law, and the ATF has, for a long time, been on the side of unconstitutional. They just got caught with their fingers in the cookie jar. Now that lawyers know where to hit them to cause the most damage, I expect they will have to run crying to Congress for an actual law.
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    Well, thank you for the education. Everyday you learn something new isa good day.
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    The "undercover" video shows the man did nothing wrong. 80% receivers must be completed by the person that will build/own the rifle. The customers that purchased unfinished receivers were clearly the ones doing the work- they pushed the button, hence operated the machinery that turned an 80% receiver into a full fledged receiver that is then a firearm. The rest is just assembling a legal firearm into a functioning firearm. Having the business owner there to assist/guide is no problem.

    Waste of time by the ATF. I guess the owner got some money from the ATF undercover agents, so that is kinda cool.
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    There was a case a couple years back of an individual reselling 80% AR lowers.
    He also has a CNC machine in his garage.
    But a paperweight from him, he shows you how to load it in the CNC, turn it on, click the menu, and push start. He touched nothing after the sale.
    He had a donation jar (ut oh).
    ATF told him to stop, and so would they.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    @WC145 Exactly...80% receivers which require machining to complete. The 80% receiver CANNOT EVER be just "assembled" in order to make a functional firearm. It MUST be further machined and therefore qualifies as a gun built by an individual, rather than the factory that cast or forged the receiver to begin with.

    EDIT - I should have added...The ATF has been on very thin ice for some time with some of their "bureaucratic edicts" being interpreted (by them) as "law." The Constitution clearly sets forth what is law, and the ATF has, for a long time, been on the side of unconstitutional. They just got caught with their fingers in the cookie jar. Now that lawyers know where to hit them to cause the most damage, I expect they will have to run crying to Congress for an actual law.
    And frankly....this is just the tip of the iceberg IMHO.... A lot of ATF rulings are bogus.
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    IIRC, and I may be wrong about this, the ATF ruled a couple of years ago that a person cannot assist someone else in building a gun from an 80% reciever for any kind of financial, or in kind, remuneration. I am not sure if that happened in this case, but I just thought I throw that out there for comment.
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    Distinguished Member Array CavemanBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    IIRC, and I may be wrong about this, the ATF ruled a couple of years ago that a person cannot assist someone else in building a gun from an 80% reciever for any kind of financial, or in kind, remuneration. I am not sure if that happened in this case, but I just thought I throw that out there for comment.
    I remember this event, there was a local machine shop which had such an operation going and was widely advertising it. They had to desist that business.
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    The problem a few years back was that the machine shop was building receivers for a fee. They did not want anyone touching their CNC machine! DR
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangerranger View Post
    The problem a few years back was that the machine shop was building receivers for a fee. They did not want anyone touching their CNC machine! DR
    I am pretty sure I remember it that way. You have to complete the receiver yourself, even if that means just pressing the button on a CNC machine. You need to put the 80% receiver in the machine, press the button and take it out. Then, you have built it yourself.
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