Anxious to see how that works out for her on election day.

Anxious to see how that works out for her on election day.

This is a discussion on Anxious to see how that works out for her on election day. within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; There was a Q and A session for those running in the local county commissioner's race this fall. Four candidates are running for three spots. ...

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Thread: Anxious to see how that works out for her on election day.

  1. #1
    Member Array mmb617's Avatar
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    Anxious to see how that works out for her on election day.

    There was a Q and A session for those running in the local county commissioner's race this fall. Four candidates are running for three spots. I thought the responses to one question were interesting. The question was a simple one: Do you own a gun? Three of them answered that they did, and one of those even volunteered the information that he carries.

    The fourth candidate, according to the local newspaper, "offered no similar support and named gun ownership as a factor increasing the success of suicide attempts".

    Say what? I don't know if I've heard that particular argument before. Is she saying that someone who is suicidal won't follow through if they don't have a gun?

    Our area has a lot of hunters and I think we're pretty much a red area in general. I'd guess her thinking on this issue will not play well come election day.
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    I have a female cousin who knows I like firearms and who tried to co-opt me on social media on the suicide issue. I can't recall what her exact argument was (this took place several years ago) but the gist of her message was that I supported limiting access to firearms. I said no such thing and I quickly shut her down.

    My cousin is from Philadelphia, like your local candidate, so maybe it's a Pennsylvania thing?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmb617 View Post
    There was a Q and A session for those running in the local county commissioner's race this fall. Four candidates are running for three spots. I thought the responses to one question were interesting. The question was a simple one: Do you own a gun? Three of them answered that they did, and one of those even volunteered the information that he carries.

    The fourth candidate, according to the local newspaper, "offered no similar support and named gun ownership as a factor increasing the success of suicide attempts".

    Say what? I don't know if I've heard that particular argument before. Is she saying that someone who is suicidal won't follow through if they don't have a gun?

    Our area has a lot of hunters and I think we're pretty much a red area in general. I'd guess her thinking on this issue will not play well come election day.
    About 40,000 people die from firearms each year in the US. (2018)

    47,000 people in the US committed suicide in 2017. 19,000 of those were by firearms.

    So half the "gun violence" deaths reported in the US are self-inflicted, and 40% of suicides are committed with firearms. These facts are used as cudgels to beat us into believing that, absent guns, we'd have 40% fewer suicides.

    Nothing could be further from the truth. Anyone in the psych business knows that someone bent on hurting themselves will find a way to do it. If not a gun, then a rope, a car, a razor, pills - whatever it takes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    I have a female cousin who knows I like firearms and who tried to co-opt me on social media on the suicide issue. I can't recall what her exact argument was (this took place several years ago) but the gist of her message was that I supported limiting access to firearms. I said no such thing and I quickly shut her down.

    My cousin is from Philadelphia, like your local candidate, so maybe it's a Pennsylvania thing?
    I don't understand this desire to control other people's lives. How can they reconcile being pro-abortion, and pro-assisted suicide in many places, but when someone wants to kill themselves with a gun - oh noooes. What happened to "my body, my choice" now? Listen, I am not going to engage in a debate on the unborn - that's a complex issue that has political, social, AND moral layers that it's perilous not to acknowledge. I am also keenly aware that most suicide is a tragedy and due to mental illness that would be best served with treatment and care, not completion. What makes no sense to me is that someone can be so arrogant as to think they are being consistent when they are ok with a person making decision to kill another human (no matter how small), but not ok with a person deciding to kill themselves.
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    There are 33 countries with higher suicide rates per capita than the US, one being Japan. All of those countries have stricter gun control laws and few guns per capita.

    Conflating guns and suicide, with guns and violent crime is illogical. Suicide is a mental health issue. Violent crime is a public safety issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    About 40,000 people die from firearms each year in the US. (2018)

    47,000 people in the US committed suicide in 2017. 19,000 of those were by firearms.

    So half the "gun violence" deaths reported in the US are self-inflicted, and 40% of suicides are committed with firearms. These facts are used as cudgels to beat us into believing that, absent guns, we'd have 40% fewer suicides.

    Nothing could be further from the truth. Anyone in the psych business knows that someone bent on hurting themselves will find a way to do it. If not a gun, then a rope, a car, a razor, pills - whatever it takes.
    Which only shows it it not about reducing suicides, only about taking away guns.
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    I’ve heard that argument before. Where it collapses is that nobody can back it up by showing that any person who used a firearm to commit suicide would not have been suicidal if they weren’t a gun owner. Even if they took guns away from all suicidal people, there would still be a single most popular method of suicide. How ridiculous would it sound if someone said “owning rope increases chances of suicide” simply because hanging was the most common method of suicide. All these people pretend to care about suicide when it helps their gun control agenda, but don’t care about actually treating the issues that these people have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmb617 View Post
    The fourth candidate, according to the local newspaper, "offered no similar support and named gun ownership as a factor increasing the success of suicide attempts".

    Say what? I don't know if I've heard that particular argument before. Is she saying that someone who is suicidal won't follow through if they don't have a gun?
    It means that if someone attempts suicide with a gun it has a higher success/lethality rate (83%) than other methods: drowning 65%, hanging 61%, poison 2%. Some people are stupid and seem to infer that data to mean that owning a gun makes one more prone to suicide. So, using a gun to off yourself is the most efficient method. So what? There will always be something that is used most. If there were no guns then the 20K people that kill themselves with guns every year may resort to drowning and maybe 4K won't be successful. Of course, some number may be in a vegetative state the rest of their lives as well. But rather than go after the reasons for people wanting to commit suicide, they want to focus on one of the means used for suicide.

    Heck, even red flag laws aren't going to stop someone intent from killing themselves. The argument is that if they don't have a gun readily available they will "get past" their crisis before they have the time to acquire a gun. That wasn't the case the two or three times a gun range in town had people come in and rent a handgun only to off themselves once they got to their shooting lane.

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    I had a guy once tell me he was going to "off" himself by taking the back off his old TV set and sticking his head inside with it plugged in and turned on. I wanted to tell him it might not kill him, but that there was every chance he would just scramble his brains and turn himself into a stewed turnip - but I didn't. (You youngsters may have never seen an actual TV set with a tube inside. They had a giant warning label about lethal voltages.)

    @Havok They wouldn't want to treat mental illness. That would make them able to reason and therefore never vote for liberal socialist communists again!
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    If guns cause suicide, then someone please explain how Japan - with almost NO civilian gun ownership - has a higher suicide rate than the US.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G26Raven View Post
    I have a female cousin who knows I like firearms and who tried to co-opt me on social media on the suicide issue. I can't recall what her exact argument was (this took place several years ago) but the gist of her message was that I supported limiting access to firearms. I said no such thing and I quickly shut her down.

    My cousin is from Philadelphia, like your local candidate, so maybe it's a Pennsylvania thing?
    No it's not a Pennsylvania thing, it's a Philadelphia and Pittsburgh thing. Those two cities are very blue but the rest of the state is pretty much all red.

    Here in central PA where I live I think a statement like hers would be very harmful to her chances of being elected. Not that it matters as I think she was already the one on the outside of the 4 candidates vying for 3 spots.
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    There is another good thread about suicides and red flag laws started by @jmf552 . I mention it because the suicide topic came up in this thread and the topic is being discussed here.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmb617 View Post
    No it's not a Pennsylvania thing, it's a Philadelphia and Pittsburgh thing. Those two cities are very blue but the rest of the state is pretty much all red.

    Here in central PA where I live I think a statement like hers would be very harmful to her chances of being elected. Not that it matters as I think she was already the one on the outside of the 4 candidates vying for 3 spots.
    Absolutely. I live in SE PA (Delaware County). I just renewed my LTCF. I was charring with the clerk in the Sheriff's office and mentioned how I had expected to be in a long line. She replied that I was the second person in the door (9AM when they open). She told. me that by 10 AM they would have a waiting line of more that 20 people, and that the office is issuing about 100 more permits per month that they did in 2018.

    I checked the state for PA. Statewide 12.61% have permits. The national average is 6.5%. So PA is double the national average for people with CCW permits, which in PA are termed: LCTF art License To Carry Firearms. They cost $20 for a 5 year term, and PA is a shall issue state. We like our guns here.

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