Pushing a Cart in Walmart with an AR-15 and a Pistol while Talking on a Cell Phone - Page 10

Pushing a Cart in Walmart with an AR-15 and a Pistol while Talking on a Cell Phone

This is a discussion on Pushing a Cart in Walmart with an AR-15 and a Pistol while Talking on a Cell Phone within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've said what I believe throughout this discussion and I stand by it. However, because I enjoy this forum and ALL of those who post ...

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Thread: Pushing a Cart in Walmart with an AR-15 and a Pistol while Talking on a Cell Phone

  1. #136
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    I've said what I believe throughout this discussion and I stand by it. However, because I enjoy this forum and ALL of those who post here I am going to bow out of this discussion.

    Carry on.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  2. #137
    Distinguished Member Array StripesDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Wow. And now a sensationalized emotionally charged attempt to paint the rifle open carrier as equal to a sexual deviant.

    Or is it only the rifle carrier that is attempted to be shamed?
    Youíve missed the point. The perception of certain behaviors is an important part of how we function as a society. And when passion is running red hot due to an event, behaviors that alarm can turn the tide against certain ideals.

  3. #138
    New Member Array Amksed's Avatar
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    Hey everyone! First time user on the forums and a resident of Missouri.

    Been following this story and want to apply my .02!

    I understand with recent events that everyone is on edge and the young man who did this act, did so under very poor judgement. HOWEVER, this man did NOTHING illegal according to any statutes in the State of Missouri. No threats were made and the firearms were never brandished or positioned in a threatening manner. All were either holstered or slung.

    Open Carry Rifle = Legal
    Open Carry Handgun = Legal
    Wearing Body Armor (While not in the commission of a crime) = Legal.

    A lot of people's main arguments is that he alarmed the public and caused the store to be evacuated. That's not his fault that OTHER people inaccurately perceived this person has a threat and if some people on here are okay with other people's perceptions which justify you as a threat or not, you're opening a huge door for problems to EVERYONE who carries either opening or concealed later down the road. Anyone at this point could make a claim if you are open carrying or conceal carrying a handgun that you are a threat and do the same exact response as they did in Springfield, MO. (Pull the firearm and evac store).

    If you want to give ammo to the anti-gun political opposition to be able to call the police anytime you are carrying a firearm and they don't like it, you're sealing your own crypts.

    TL;DR - The young man in Springfield did a bonehead stunt but it was NOT illegal in any way shape or form.
    gglass, sdprof, Havok and 1 others like this.

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  5. #139
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Carrying slung rifles into shopping areas has not been a norm anywhere I've lived, ever, not just the past decade. In the 1980s our deer rifles were displayed openly in pickup truck gun racks at school, but it seemed absurd to carry one to class so I never considered it. Likewise, no one carried them into a grocery store, clothing store, or places like Fred Meyers, Target or Walmart. It just wasn't done.

    We can't logically claim the past decade of not open carrying rifles, or even handguns, has led to a downturn of familiarity with guns. I've actually seen more open carry in the past year in places I frequently travel (VA, AZ, WA, ID, TX, and LA mostly) than I ever have.

    The non-gun public is going to notice the unusual behavior of carrying rifles where rifles aren't regularly fired and wonder why on Earth someone is carrying one there. The initial public assumption is going to be either it's a nut drawing attention to themselves or it's a nut about to shoot a bunch of people; few are going to think maybe it's just a tool carried for self-protection. After all, in a place they feel (yeah, I know) completely safe why would anyone carry a rifle to stay safe--only a paranoid person would do that.

    Like it or not these public perceptions are going to shape policy related to the 2A. If we push too hard too fast there will be pushback. Pressing the issue in the immediate aftermath of multiple public shootings displays an utter lack of comprehension of what's going on in society, and a lack of compassion and consideration for others who might not become enemies of the 2A if not for stupid behavior on the part of some pro-gun people.
    Ride hard, shoot straight, always speak the truth

  6. #140
    VIP Member Array craze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amksed View Post
    Hey everyone! First time user on the forums and a resident of Missouri.

    Been following this story and want to apply my .02!

    I understand with recent events that everyone is on edge and the young man who did this act, did so under very poor judgement. HOWEVER, this man did NOTHING illegal according to any statutes in the State of Missouri. No threats were made and the firearms were never brandished or positioned in a threatening manner. All were either holstered or slung.

    Open Carry Rifle = Legal
    Open Carry Handgun = Legal
    Wearing Body Armor (While not in the commission of a crime) = Legal.

    A lot of people's main arguments is that he alarmed the public and caused the store to be evacuated. That's not his fault that OTHER people inaccurately perceived this person has a threat and if some people on here are okay with other people's perceptions which justify you as a threat or not, you're opening a huge door for problems to EVERYONE who carries either opening or concealed later down the road. Anyone at this point could make a claim if you are open carrying or conceal carrying a handgun that you are a threat and do the same exact response as they did in Springfield, MO. (Pull the firearm and evac store).

    If you want to give ammo to the anti-gun political opposition to be able to call the police anytime you are carrying a firearm and they don't like it, you're sealing your own crypts.

    TL;DR - The young man in Springfield did a bonehead stunt but it was NOT illegal in any way shape or form.
    Welcome to the forum from a fellow Missouri resident, and long time forum member. I've lived in the state all of my 43 years. When I bought my first firearm when I turned 18, there was no legal concealed carry in this state period, a lot of NFA items were illegal, to purchase a handgun we needed a permit. Not a permit to carry but a permit to purchase.

    Today, Missouri basically has no firearms restrictions beyond what the federal gov. forces on everyone. No permit to purchase, no permit needed to carry. No restrictions on NFA items beyond what the fed requires. I live in the metro St. Louis area. I work in downtown St. Louis (the most anti gun region of this state). In the last couple of months I've seen more open carriers on my lunch break in the city of St. Louis than I've ever seen anywhere in the state. I live near Ferguson, where some of my neighbors open carried long guns to defend their personal assets when things went ugly. The rational use of legal open carry. No one was arrested for the open carry of a firearm during the Ferguson riots that I ever heard of.

    For Missourians who love the 2nd amendment things have improved 10 fold in the last 15 years or so. Clowns like the one this thread is dedicated to had 0 impact on making that happen. He is a coward who played dress up to cause a stir, and carried guns for the sole purpose of using them as a stage props. The fact that another citizen pulled a gun on him and he was detained is not the nail in the coffin of the 2a as some on this thread seem to imply.

    He is not a 2a hero, or representative of the kind of folks who love this country and it's freedoms. In my humble opinion he is most certainly not representative of most gun owners or the best type of gun owners that are represented on this forum. He is more of an enemy to our freedoms than the folks in that Walmart who didn't automatically assume the guy armed with a rifle in tactical gear was just a normal working class stiff who wanted nothing more than to replenish his stock of coco puffs and pepsi cola.
    Kilowatt3 and Risasi like this.
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  7. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    Carrying slung rifles into shopping areas has not been a norm anywhere I've lived, ever, not just the past decade. In the 1980s our deer rifles were displayed openly in pickup truck gun racks at school, but it seemed absurd to carry one to class so I never considered it. Likewise, no one carried them into a grocery store, clothing store, or places like Fred Meyers, Target or Walmart. It just wasn't done.

    We can't logically claim the past decade of not open carrying rifles, or even handguns, has led to a downturn of familiarity with guns. I've actually seen more open carry in the past year in places I frequently travel (VA, AZ, WA, ID, TX, and LA mostly) than I ever have.

    The non-gun public is going to notice the unusual behavior of carrying rifles where rifles aren't regularly fired and wonder why on Earth someone is carrying one there. The initial public assumption is going to be either it's a nut drawing attention to themselves or it's a nut about to shoot a bunch of people; few are going to think maybe it's just a tool carried for self-protection. After all, in a place they feel (yeah, I know) completely safe why would anyone carry a rifle to stay safe--only a paranoid person would do that.

    Like it or not these public perceptions are going to shape policy related to the 2A. If we push too hard too fast there will be pushback. Pressing the issue in the immediate aftermath of multiple public shootings displays an utter lack of comprehension of what's going on in society, and a lack of compassion and consideration for others who might not become enemies of the 2A if not for stupid behavior on the part of some pro-gun people.
    My point exactly. Well said.
    AzQkr and Kilowatt3 like this.
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  8. #142
    Senior Member Array gglass's Avatar
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    Oh, no!

    Weapons of war in the public square!

    sdprof likes this.
    "...the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states).

  9. #143
    VIP Member Array Fizban's Avatar
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    I wont try to convince anyone of how screwed up, irresponsible and troubling this guys decision or OC in Walmart actually was. If you agree.. fine and if you don't... fine. The bottom line is that ( someone reported him), Police responded and checked him out. I think that is exactly what should have happened and I am confident that it will play out just like that each times someone calls in someone behaving oddly while carrying a rifle. No worries, it is what it is.


    The only thing this type of silliness is likely to accomplish is more gunbuster signs, more laws and more restrictions. If gun buster signs do not carry force of law in your area, this kind of jackassery is exactly how to get that changed. OC for what?.. attention? activism? or some sort of social experiment? I am not inclined to believe that it likely has anything to do with self defense or personal safety.
    Think like a man of action - Act like a man of thought

  10. #144
    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Lots of young men in this country hang out on the corner "din do nuffin" when police stop to question them. Is it illegal to hang out on the sidewalk with a few of your dearest friends? Most often there isn't even an arrest.

    So, why do the police stop?
    Psalm 144:1

  11. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amksed View Post
    Hey everyone! First time user on the forums and a resident of Missouri.
    Welcome aboard -- thanks for your input!

    A lot of people's main arguments is that he alarmed the public and caused the store to be evacuated. That's not his fault that OTHER people inaccurately perceived this person has a threat and if some people on here are okay with other people's perceptions which justify you as a threat or not, you're opening a huge door for problems to EVERYONE who carries either opening or concealed later down the road. Anyone at this point could make a claim if you are open carrying or conceal carrying a handgun that you are a threat and do the same exact response as they did in Springfield, MO. (Pull the firearm and evac store).

    If you want to give ammo to the anti-gun political opposition to be able to call the police anytime you are carrying a firearm and they don't like it, you're sealing your own crypts.

    TL;DR - The young man in Springfield did a bonehead stunt but it was NOT illegal in any way shape or form.
    Excellent points all around.

    BTW, don't know if the term "alarmed" is defined in the Missouri statutes, but here in Colorado, our CRS provides clear examples i.e. brandishing is cause for alarm but OC is not cause for alarm.

    Does Missouri have similar clarifications?
    How many times must we see defenseless people die before we realize being defenseless is NOT the answer? // The First protects the Second and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect everything else.

  12. #146
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    This guy was a ******* moron! Thatís right, a ******* moron to do that. I donít care if it is his right, heís lucky someone didnít shoot him. People like this fan the flames of the far left anti-gun movement and anyone that says ďitís his rightĒ is just as clueless. I also have an issue with folks that outside carry. Why advertise? Does it make you feel like a macho man? Keep it hidden until you need. I cc every day. Hope I never have to use it but if I do, I donít want the bad guy to know what heís up against until Iím in a situation to draw. Again, why the hell would you walk in to an establishment that just experienced mass murder dressed like that? Moron!

  13. #147
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgfan165 View Post
    This guy was a ******* moron! Thatís right, a ******* moron to do that. I donít care if it is his right, heís lucky someone didnít shoot him. People like this fan the flames of the far left anti-gun movement and anyone that says ďitís his rightĒ is just as clueless. I also have an issue with folks that outside carry. Why advertise? Does it make you feel like a macho man? Keep it hidden until you need. I cc every day. Hope I never have to use it but if I do, I donít want the bad guy to know what heís up against until Iím in a situation to draw. Again, why the hell would you walk in to an establishment that just experienced mass murder dressed like that? Moron!
    Thereís so much wrong with this post...
    ddrew, gglass and since9 like this.
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  14. #148
    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgfan165 View Post
    This guy was a ******* moron! Thatís right, a ******* moron to do that. I donít care if it is his right, heís lucky someone didnít shoot him. People like this fan the flames of the far left anti-gun movement and anyone that says ďitís his rightĒ is just as clueless. I also have an issue with folks that outside carry. Why advertise? Does it make you feel like a macho man? Keep it hidden until you need. I cc every day. Hope I never have to use it but if I do, I donít want the bad guy to know what heís up against until Iím in a situation to draw. Again, why the hell would you walk in to an establishment that just experienced mass murder dressed like that? Moron!
    There's a little macho man in all of us.

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  15. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    Carrying slung rifles into shopping areas has not been a norm anywhere I've lived, ever, not just the past decade. In the 1980s our deer rifles were displayed openly in pickup truck gun racks at school, but it seemed absurd to carry one to class so I never considered it. Likewise, no one carried them into a grocery store, clothing store, or places like Fred Meyers, Target or Walmart. It just wasn't done.

    We can't logically claim the past decade of not open carrying rifles, or even handguns, has led to a downturn of familiarity with guns. I've actually seen more open carry in the past year in places I frequently travel (VA, AZ, WA, ID, TX, and LA mostly) than I ever have.

    The non-gun public is going to notice the unusual behavior of carrying rifles where rifles aren't regularly fired and wonder why on Earth someone is carrying one there. The initial public assumption is going to be either it's a nut drawing attention to themselves or it's a nut about to shoot a bunch of people; few are going to think maybe it's just a tool carried for self-protection. After all, in a place they feel (yeah, I know) completely safe why would anyone carry a rifle to stay safe--only a paranoid person would do that.

    Like it or not these public perceptions are going to shape policy related to the 2A. If we push too hard too fast there will be pushback. Pressing the issue in the immediate aftermath of multiple public shootings displays an utter lack of comprehension of what's going on in society, and a lack of compassion and consideration for others who might not become enemies of the 2A if not for stupid behavior on the part of some pro-gun people.
    Seems like extremists on either side of the issue get all the press.
    No coverage on the ones in the middle because that doesn't sell readership.
    Bad/controversial news sells.. good news doesn't, anymore.
    graydude and Risasi like this.

  16. #150
    New Member Array mattmer's Avatar
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    Probably a 'criminal offense'

    to 'incite' or cause a 'panic' like 'fire' in a theater where there is no fire is problematic for the perpetrator.

    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Article

    I couldn't fit "while wearing a bulletproof vest" in the title.

    "...police are still working to determine his motives and whether he intended to shoot anyone."

    Seriously? The man may not have been very bright doing that on the heels of a Walmart shooting, but "talking on his cell phone while pushing a cart" is a huge indication. In fact, that's the first question out of 911 operator's mouths around here when receiving a MWAG call: "What's he doing? Is the firearm holstered or slung? He's not waiving it around... Oh, he's pushing a shopping cart? And talking on a cell phone?"

    When I first began OC back in 2010, I'd walk into Walmart, grab a shopping cart, then throw a couple of groceries in it from the food stands next to the shopping cart.

    It's his right to wear body armor, as well as his right to keep and bear arms (yes, it's plural).

    Not too bright, but well within his rights.

    But if it makes people THAT nervous, instead of infringing on his Constitutional rights, they should exercise their OWN Constitutional rights by carrying their OWN firearms.

    After all, if most people carried, mass shooters would literally become a dying breed.

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