Pushing a Cart in Walmart with an AR-15 and a Pistol while Talking on a Cell Phone - Page 6

Pushing a Cart in Walmart with an AR-15 and a Pistol while Talking on a Cell Phone

This is a discussion on Pushing a Cart in Walmart with an AR-15 and a Pistol while Talking on a Cell Phone within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Nmuskier How many threads do we have about situational awareness? How many members here are set off by far more mundane actions? ...

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Thread: Pushing a Cart in Walmart with an AR-15 and a Pistol while Talking on a Cell Phone

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nmuskier View Post
    How many threads do we have about situational awareness? How many members here are set off by far more mundane actions? 20's white male with body armor and a loaded AR fits the mass shooter profile.

    Talking on the cell phone to who? His accomplice? Timing his attack? I don't believe for a second folks here would see that individual at their local shopping center and not raise their alert level.
    I might be predisposed to go into hunt/surveillance mode for a short time to determine his demeanor. Easy enough to keep an eye on someone like Wally's without being caught doing so.

    What I wouldn't be doing is walking up and thanking him open carrying an AR exercising his right to do so. If anything I might be inclined to approach him and whisper "why you being a douche'"
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  2. #77
    VIP Member Array SouthernBoyVA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    I understand your points, but I see it a bit differently. The vast majority of Americans do not own guns even though they have a right to do so. It is their free choice. Consequently, most people do not carry guns, and even most people who own guns do not carry them. So to suggest what you do is is an overreaching hypothetical. Why not say if killers could not access guns people would be safer? it is the opposite of what you are suggesting. it is what the anti 2A folks say. Trying to get everyone to carry a gun is like trying to stop everyone from carrying a gun. It is not going to happen, so why offer it a solution.

    Yes, the armed man exercised his right and he was pushing a shopping cart and speaking on a cell phone. Is it so inconceivable that a an armed person doing those things could not begin shooting at people? If I saw him I would have had my hand on my gun because I live situational awareness, and that means a civilian with an exposed gun in a Walmart is not going to be assumed by me to not be a possible threat. Why shoud anyone feel differently than I would?

    Finally, especially in light of the still painful Walmart shooting, anyone in tactical gear and open carrying in a Walmart is purposely drawing attention to himself at the expense of others. Yes, he has the right to do so, but is it so wrong to think he has an obligation to not frighten people who now have a heightened sense of danger in a Walmart.

    There is no justification for any gun owner to exercise his right to open carry and abandon common sense in recognizing what reaction he causes in others.
    I disagree with this sentence completely. The hard core response might be something like, "I don't give a damned what others might think. It's perfectly legal and I'm going to do what I want to do". The soft and sensitive response might be, "Oh My God, a gun. Call the police"! Somewhere in the middle may well lie the answer.

    Surprisingly, openly carrying a sidearm in a good holster tends to be totally overlooked by most people. They don't even see it. And if they do, there is a very good chance they're going to think the carrier is in some form of law enforcement. I know this to be fact because I OC'd religiously for 7 1/2 years, from 2007 to 2015, all around the Northern Virginia area and it was a no-brainer. I patronized restaurants, Walmarts, Targets, Macy's, Drug stores, grocery stores, and a host of other businesses with virtually no problems at all. I didn't dress in a suit or similar attire but rather nice casual clothes (jeans and shorts, weather determining). My rig was almost always a gen3 Glock 23 in a Fobus Evolution belt holster. Nothing sinister or threatening about that sort of rig.

    Now as to the individual who decided to walk around a Walmart in full regalia with rifle and handgun exposed, I would not suggest that at this or any other time. Mostly because the person is almost certain to get a bunch of MWAG calls and will be detained for a bit. I much prefer to continue to go about my business, unmolested or hampered. So from that perspective, I don't think it wise for this sort of carry... at least not until the SHTF.
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    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    A not so humble and likely not to be popular and probably will draw some negativity rant:

    So many folks in favor of supporting the right to bear arms BUT it has to be only in a way, only with the kind of arm, only at a time, and only in a place they consider reasonable and acceptable.

    The anti gunner intimidation tactics of shaming and shunning have been very effective in causing those who bear arms to self restrict their own right.

    End rant.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

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  5. #79
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    A couple of mass shootings happen, and this drives a national news cycle for days, including the usual left/right vitriol and angst.

    Then some guy thinks to himself "sounds like a great time to throw on body armor, an open carried handgun, and sling one of those scary black rifles while walking through a store of the same chain that recently had a bunch of people murdered."

    Any rational person would realize this action would at the very least create a public disturbance. Legal or not, that's not a circus show I want any part of. If I see such a person casually shopping and video recording in these kind of circumstances, the shopping cart is quietly abandoned and I leave the store. Store security and the cops can deal with it.
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  6. #80
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    Defending this guy or his actions as virtuous, wise, justified, acceptable etc. just because it's technically legal is a misguided as calling for someone to spend 10 years in prison because they had access to the safe their spouse keeps his NFA item in, therefore technically has constructive possession.
    Never use the law as a foundation for right and wrong.
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  7. #81
    Distinguished Member Array RedSafety's Avatar
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    I'd like to know which Neighborhood Market this was. It's NOT safe to go there with a lunatic moron for a manager who pulls the fire alarm to cause a panic when NO crime was committed. HE should be the one to face terrorist charges. If I happened to be in the store at the time, I would be pressing charges against that maniac.

    I'd also call out the lunatic for dressing that way, deliberately wanting someone to make a MWAG call and draw officers out of their patrols.
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  8. #82
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    I just got back from pushing a cart through Wal Mart while open carrying and am now downloading and saving the video/audio recording of everything from getting out of my car to getting back into my car when done shopping. The recording is very boring to watch as people pass me by in the aisles returning my smile. Although there is one highlight when I offered the mother of a young girl some quarters so the child could ride the mechanical horse in the lobby. The mother's thanks and the little girl's great big smile made my day.

    Oh.... no one ran away, no cops showed up, and there wasn't any drama when I bought some 9mm ammo.

    And since I was wearing a white shirt like I always do my Glock was glaringly visible. No it wasn't the same as a slung rifle but it still was a gun in plain sight in Wal Mart (crowded on a Sat.) one week after that horrific shooting in El Paso. But then I was open carrying wearing a white shirt while shopping at Wal Mart last Monday just 2 days after that shooting and my experience was the same as today.

    But from reading many of the posts on this subject in many forum threads perhaps I should have carried concealed because open carry might be shoving my rights in other's faces or someone might have the opinion that exercising the right to bear arms after a mass shooting wasn't virtuous, wise, justified, or acceptable. Or maybe the way I open carried meets the approval of others but someone elses open carry wouldn't.

    Ummmm.... nah. I firmly believe that which is ordinarily hidden becomes feared when seen but that which is ordinarily seen loses any fear factor as it becomes ordinary to see.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Being legal doesn't necessarily make it right, and being illegal doesn't necessarily make it wrong.

    However you wanna cut this one, the guy is dummer than a bucketful of hammers.
    C'mon, hammers are at least useful.
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  10. #84
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    He's got an attorney who uses abusive tactics to discredit (abuse and blame) victims of child sexual abuse. He'll likely get off. This is one time I will be rooting for this guy.
    When seconds count, help is only 18+ minutes away!

  11. #85
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    I just got back from pushing a cart through Wal Mart while open carrying and am now downloading and saving the video/audio recording of everything from getting out of my car to getting back into my car when done shopping. The recording is very boring to watch as people pass me by in the aisles returning my smile. Although there is one highlight when I offered the mother of a young girl some quarters so the child could ride the mechanical horse in the lobby. The mother's thanks and the little girl's great big smile made my day.

    Oh.... no one ran away, no cops showed up, and there wasn't any drama when I bought some 9mm ammo.

    And since I was wearing a white shirt like I always do my Glock was glaringly visible. No it wasn't the same as a slung rifle but it still was a gun in plain sight in Wal Mart (crowded on a Sat.) one week after that horrific shooting in El Paso. But then I was open carrying wearing a white shirt while shopping at Wal Mart last Monday just 2 days after that shooting and my experience was the same as today.

    But from reading many of the posts on this subject in many forum threads perhaps I should have carried concealed because open carry might be shoving my rights in other's faces or someone might have the opinion that exercising the right to bear arms after a mass shooting wasn't virtuous, wise, justified, or acceptable. Or maybe the way I open carried meets the approval of others but someone elses open carry wouldn't.

    Ummmm.... nah. I firmly believe that which is ordinarily hidden becomes feared when seen but that which is ordinarily seen loses any fear factor as it becomes ordinary to see.
    Glad to hear the visit was unremarkable. That's how it should be.

    But add an openly slung black rifle and body armor and I suspect you'd have had a lot of unwanted attention.
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  12. #86
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    Glad to hear the visit was unremarkable. That's how it should be.

    But add an openly slung black rifle and body armor and I suspect you'd have had a lot of unwanted attention.
    The hoopla resulting from open carrying a black rifle is the same hoopla the few folks who began open carrying pistols in Michigan experienced not too long ago . Some of those pistol open carriers were proned out and arrested too. And when the dust cleared the media helped educate Michigan's population and law suits helped educate the police that open carry was legal and the police were trained in how to respond (or not) to MWAG calls about open carriers. Many of those law suits were settled with little to no financial settlement but with agreements for the police to be retrained. And educating the public and the police was the goal.

    Perhaps it is time to apply the same movement to long guns. But from reading posts on this subject I suspect entirely too many gun owners/carriers would join with the anti gunners in their outcry to stop such a thing. Just like they did with pistol open carry not so long ago.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  13. #87
    Distinguished Member Array RedSafety's Avatar
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    Bikenut. I'm almost convinced to occasionally OC my pistol, just to get people used to seeing people carry. However, I would NOT carry at the 2 north end Walmarts, as they are rather gestapo type security people there, running down customers and causing accidents. They are a perfect match for this criminal manager who lied to police and then illegally pulled the fire alarm, causing a dangerous situation.
    jmf552 likes this.
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  14. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSafety View Post
    Bikenut. I'm almost convinced to occasionally OC my pistol, just to get people used to seeing people carry. However, I would NOT carry at the 2 north end Walmarts, as they are rather gestapo type security people there, running down customers and causing accidents. They are a perfect match for this criminal manager who lied to police and then illegally pulled the fire alarm, causing a dangerous situation.
    I am not up on MO's firearm laws nor if there are or where the gun free zones are but I hope you decide to give OC a try where it is legal.

    Edited to add:
    While I am not an attorney I suspect the firefighter who held the rifle open carrier at gun point could be (I think should be) charged with assault with a deadly weapon.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  15. #89
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Perhaps it is time to apply the same movement to long guns. But from reading posts on this subject I suspect entirely too many gun owners/carriers would join with the anti gunners in their outcry to stop such a thing. Just like they did with pistol open carry not so long ago.
    People have been applying the same movement to long guns. Doing so in the immediate aftermath of two well publicized shootings, while much of the country is on edge and panicky, while also wearing body armor? Not a wise move, and not helpful.
    Ride hard, shoot straight, always speak the truth

  16. #90
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    Agreed, Bikenut, on both accounts. However, OC will NOT be happening at the 2 north Walmarts. Actually, I would probably participate in an organized, peaceful protest of OC's at the Neighborhood Market that initiated the subject of this thread. I believe it's the one across town, based on the minimal background in the photo.
    When seconds count, help is only 18+ minutes away!

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