RIP OC - Man Banned from Walmart in Lexington, KY - Page 8

RIP OC - Man Banned from Walmart in Lexington, KY

This is a discussion on RIP OC - Man Banned from Walmart in Lexington, KY within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by DG I've not read through the whole thread. My take is that Walmart is asking that customers not openly carry in their ...

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Thread: RIP OC - Man Banned from Walmart in Lexington, KY

  1. #106
    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DG View Post
    I've not read through the whole thread. My take is that Walmart is asking that customers not openly carry in their stores. That addresses the concerns of their other customers who may not be fond of guns. In other words, you can still carry, just don't shove it down my throat.

    Naturally, you have those folks who are "full tilt boogie" I'm going to carry because it's legal and I really don't give a damn for common courtesy or what anybody else thinks.

    And those folks will end up screwing it up for the rest of us.
    UM NO

    This happened BEFORE WM made the no OC Request
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    In Gibson v. Commonwealth, 237 Ky. 33, 34 S.W.2d 936 (1936), the High Court stated:  [I]t is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs.   He does not have to.

  2. #107
    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Knowing that Wal Mart has partnered with Everytown for Gun Safety is enough for me to stay out whether they sell ammo or ban open carry.... or not. I don't want a portion of what I paid for a loaf of bread funding the anti gun agenda through Everytown.
    I agree 100% and we used to spend a bunch of $$$ there, that ended when they jumped into bed with Bloomberg et al.
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    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Gibson v. Commonwealth, 237 Ky. 33, 34 S.W.2d 936 (1936), the High Court stated:  [I]t is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs.   He does not have to.

  3. #108
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm glad that I think open carry in public is about as smart as a screen door on a submarine.
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  5. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceoky View Post
    There is NO evidence he was ever asked to leave WM by any associates (which the LEO should have mentioned btw, ) the paper was to be signed saying he is banned permanently from WM and Sam's clubs nationwide. It's quite common for WM to ban folks for ILLEGAL (shoplifting, fighting , etc. ) first time I've seen them do it for a legal activity and Corp policy doesn't allow for what happened so ...
    Good info. Based upon it I cannot understand why the LEO was having the man sign the document. That was in no way the duty of the police to serve a store policy document on an individual.
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  6. #110
    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    It appears the manager was "too scared" to do the deed and requested that LEO did that . IF a customer made a MWAG call, dispatch certainly failed to to their job since OC is legal statewide - period. I'm guessing this was really a "SWAT" call and the caller should be arrested and charged IMHO
    Havok and Risasi like this.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Gibson v. Commonwealth, 237 Ky. 33, 34 S.W.2d 936 (1936), the High Court stated:  [I]t is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs.   He does not have to.

  7. #111
    VIP Member Array Aceoky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringerXD View Post
    I haven't read the entire thread, but I'm glad that I think open carry in public is about as smart as a screen door on a submarine.
    You have every right to Not OC anywhere at all times. Simple enough
    Havok and tcbradbury98 like this.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In Gibson v. Commonwealth, 237 Ky. 33, 34 S.W.2d 936 (1936), the High Court stated:  [I]t is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs.   He does not have to.

  8. #112
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    So, open carry is right up there with body odor. Got it.
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  9. #113
    VIP Member Array SpringerXD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceoky View Post
    You have every right to Not OC anywhere at all times. Simple enough

    I'm not criticizing those who do it. That's totally their right. But for me personally, if I'm ever in a mass shooting situation I would rather not be the guy who yells, "Hey! Look at me! I'm armed so you had better shoot me first, mmmkay?"
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  10. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aceoky View Post
    I don't know about that Bob what he did was perfectly legal LONG before WM was even thought of much less came to Ky. Besides that fact, the WM manager on duty clearly violated Corp policy of "non confrontational" even calling LEO for a non crime on a legal activity. BIG fubar on WM manager's part IMO
    Every urban OC carrier that talks about it says that they want people to see they are carrying a gun. There are several reasons articulated, but the common thread is they want to be noticed.

    I am not defending Walmart at all, what they did was wrong. My position is that if he was concealed nobody would have known he was armed and there would have been no drama.
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  11. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Every urban OC carrier that talks about it says that they want people to see they are carrying a gun.
    Not I, so if you would, please make that, "Every urban OC carrier that talks about it says that they want people to see they are carrying a gun... EXCEPT this one guy I know on this one forum..."

    No, seriously. I do not OC to be seen. In fact, whenever I OC, it's always with black jeans in a black half-drop leg holder with my black pistol. Most people never notice it unless they're standing behind me in line at the store.

    "Why do you carry it?"

    Speed.

    "Why don't you conceal it?"

    Lack of speed.

    I am not defending Walmart at all, what they did was wrong.
    Agreed.

    My position is that if he was concealed nobody would have known he was armed and there would have been no drama.
    If he'd OC'd in an unobtrusive manner, he and we all would have been fine, as well, but this guy was but the tip of the iceburg. Too many folks in too many areas "trying to push the envelope."

    Instead anti-discrimination laws, we need pro-lawful laws: "If an activity is lawful in public, you cannot ban it from your store."

    Citizen: "But it's dangerous!"

    LE: "It's far less dangerous taking a shower."
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  12. #116
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    @since9 -- "If he'd OC'd in an unobtrusive manner, he and we all would have been fine, as well, but this guy was but the tip of the iceburg. Too many folks in too many areas "trying to push the envelope."

    We agree on that, sir.
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  13. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Not I, so if you would, please make that, "Every urban OC carrier that talks about it says that they want people to see they are carrying a gun... EXCEPT this one guy I know on this one forum..."

    No, seriously. I do not OC to be seen. In fact, whenever I OC, it's always with black jeans in a black half-drop leg holder with my black pistol. Most people never notice it unless they're standing behind me in line at the store.

    "Why do you carry it?"

    Speed.

    "Why don't you conceal it?"

    Lack of speed.



    Agreed.



    If he'd OC'd in an unobtrusive manner, he and we all would have been fine, as well, but this guy was but the tip of the iceburg. Too many folks in too many areas "trying to push the envelope."

    Instead anti-discrimination laws, we need pro-lawful laws: "If an activity is lawful in public, you cannot ban it from your store."

    Citizen: "But it's dangerous!"

    LE: "It's far less dangerous taking a shower."
    Thereby taking the business owners rights away from them through law? I'm beginning to see there's a LOT of "me, me me" people on this forum who don't give a crap about anyone's elses perceived rights but their own.
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  14. #118
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    "Why don't you conceal it?"

    Lack of speed.


    Instead anti-discrimination laws, we need pro-lawful laws: "If an activity is lawful in public, you cannot ban it from your store."

    Speed of presentation;

    Speed is relative. How much faster are you really OC VS CC? Maybe .25 second? Average reaction time to visual stimulus is .25 seconds when you are expecting something like a timer. It gets much worse if caught off guard. I never practiced "quick draw" I just practiced perfect draws, when I need it, its there.

    Do you use the same holster for OC VS CC?

    It all comes down to property rights, they own the property so they ultimately get to decide who is allowed on the premises.
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  15. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Bob View Post
    Speed of presentation;

    Speed is relative. How much faster are you really OC VS CC? Maybe .25 second? Average reaction time to visual stimulus is .25 seconds when you are expecting something like a timer. It gets much worse if caught off guard. I never practiced "quick draw" I just practiced perfect draws, when I need it, its there.

    Do you use the same holster for OC VS CC?

    It all comes down to property rights, they own the property so they ultimately get to decide who is allowed on the premises.
    No. That applies to single family dwellings, and somewhat to private clubs. It does not apply to businesses open to the general public.

    About five days ago, I had a very long conversation with a real estate attorney specializing in handling cases where rights were not as cut and dry as they are for single family dwellings on 2.5 acres.

    Bottom line: "Business property rights are absolutely not absolute." If you don't believe me, try hanging an "open to the public" shingle then telling everyone who walks in with pink or purple hair that you have the right to prohibit them from entering your business. You will be slapped with a suit, then fined along with a court order compelling you to provide service so fast it'll make your head spin.

    Bottom line: You do not "ultimately get to decide who is allowed on the premises." That is an oft-repeated and always wrong misnomer. It applies to single family dwellings. Your home is your castle. Your business, however, is not, and you are subject to a myriad of laws concerning your business.

    Now, here's what you CAN do. You can kick everyone out and close shop. However, if that happens twice when the pink or purple-haired person comes around, you're in trouble, as you're only closing shop when they're around and you open right back up when they leave, which renders you guilty of utilizing one right as a business owner to skirt the rights and freedoms of your customers. Again, bad news for the business owner who attempts this. They get caught. They get fined. They're compelled to comply with court orders, and if they continue to refuse, judges can eventually, in some areas, shut down your entire business.

    I have a question for you: Why do you continue to insist, "they own the property so they ultimately get to decide who is allowed on the premises?"

    It's wrong, at least during normal business hours in areas you've opened to the general public.

    Now, after closing time, you can tell everyone who comes to the door to go away, and you can even let your friends inside and play cards.

    That, however, is a very different legal situation than during normal business hours. Different rules apply.
    Aceoky likes this.
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  16. #120
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    I have a question for you: Why do you continue to insist, "they own the property so they ultimately get to decide who is allowed on the premises?"
    I mentioned it once. I see businesses all the time issuing a "notice of trespass" to people. That has the force of law.
    A man has got to know his limitations.

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