Add Meijers and Aldi to the list of stores banning OC - Page 13

Add Meijers and Aldi to the list of stores banning OC

This is a discussion on Add Meijers and Aldi to the list of stores banning OC within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by AzQkr Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post I find it sad that anyone within the gun business community would help fund an ...

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Thread: Add Meijers and Aldi to the list of stores banning OC

  1. #181
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    I find it sad that anyone within the gun business community would help fund an anti gun organization and then make many posts online defending that decision.

    And I get to say where I will NOT spend my money. And I have decided I will NOT spend any of my money at Wal Mart because they partnered with Everytown for Gun Safety. I also have decided to NOT spend my money with someone who also supports Everytown for Gun Safety through shopping at Wal Mart.

    Not to mention that everyone else gets to decide which businesses they will NOT support by spending their money there. And I would like to thank you for providing information for folks to consider when making their decision of which businesses they will, or won't, support.
    Won't affect me one wit Bikenut, no longer traveling to train.
    Maybe not but time will tell if everyday gun folks, and folks with FFL gun businesses, helping fund Everytown for Gun Safety through their purchases at Wal Mart will have a negative effect on everyone's ability to exercise the 2nd Amendment right to bear arms.

    Then folks will know if their choice to shop at a business that supported an anti gun organization in the name of convenience and saving a few bucks helped the pro gun agenda.... or the anti gun agenda. So...

    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  2. #182
    Senior Member Array KevinRohrer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotBrass45 View Post
    More jumping on the bandwagon. Meijers is a large chain around here

    "The safety of our customers and team members is our top priority, so we respectfully request that our customers do not open carry firearms at Meijer. We've made this decision because open carry can create an environment that makes our customers and team members feel unsafe. ó Meijer (@meijer) September 9, 2019"

    "At ALDI, the safety of our employees, customers and the community is our highest priority. Alongside many other businesses, we are asking that our customers refrain from openly displaying firearms in any of our stores, except for authorized law enforcement personnel. ó ALDI USA (@AldiUSA) September 9, 2019"
    More Fake News. For those who do not read for comprehension: neither chain has "banned" OC; they merely request it not happen.

    Carry concealed as you should and not worry about it.
    AzQkr and Mike1956 like this.
    Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, American Legion

  3. #183
    VIP Member Array Sister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinRohrer View Post
    More Fake News. For those who do not read for comprehension: neither chain has "banned" OC; they merely request it not happen.

    Carry concealed as you should and not worry about it.

    Oh no, I wouldnít ever go in there now! 😮

    Iím not comfortable and feel unsafe in Meijerss and believe it to be a hostile environment with this new request, some of us like to have good people with guns around us.

    Easy to boycott them too, I got no dog in that fight lots of other stores 😃
    Bikenut likes this.
    Trust God.

    What would happen if you put the same amount of trust in God that you do in the brakes on what your driving on the highways?

    Think about it.

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  5. #184
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    It is my not so humble and not popular opinion that "concealed means concealed" has done more damage to the right to bear arms than any rifle carrier in Wal Mart simply because if folks had been open carrying all along the public would already be accustomed to the sight of guns in daily life making some dude carrying a rifle, any kind of rifle, in Wal Mart a total non issue. Not only that but there wouldn't be much of an, if any, anti gun movement.
    Simply impossible for some states residents to open carry at all by law. Relative there wouldn't be an anti gun movement, that's a WAG on your part, with no facts in evidence to support your theory
    My opinion quoted above is based on simple human nature to become accustomed to something seen often as something accepted to see....

    https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is...uation-2795233

    When and Why Does Habituation Occur?
    The more we encounter something, the less likely we are to react
    -snip-

    That which is hidden is not ordinary to see but that which is ordinarily seen becomes accepted as ordinary to see.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  6. #185
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sister View Post
    Oh no, I wouldnít ever go in there now! 😮

    Iím not comfortable and feel unsafe in Meijerss and believe it to be a hostile environment with this new request, some of us like to have good people with guns around us.

    Easy to boycott them too, I got no dog in that fight lots of other stores 😃
    Ya, what would ya do without all those open carriers there now right?

  7. #186
    New Member Array cowboy44mag's Avatar
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    I know I'm probably not going to be real popular with posting my viewpoint on this topic, but here it goes anyway. First of all, I have been shooting since I was about 8 and have owned and had full access to guns for what seems like my whole life. Its just part of growing up on and running a farm. I have many different rifles, shotguns and handguns, although were I'm from they are really used more as "tools" than defensive weapons. I board and train horses so I have to keep my ponds free of muskrat, my fields free from woodchucks, and my property free from scavenging coyotes after my chickens, and black bear after my bins of horse feed. Really the two firearms I use most are a .22 rifle and my .44mag (Ruger Super Blackhawk). I have the necessary permit for concealed carry although I rarely do so anymore.

    With that said, I actually agree with Walmart and the other retailers that are politely requesting customers not open carry in their stores. One has to remember for every responsible gun owner out there, there is at least one person who has a firearm and should never be trusted with a butter knife. The responsible gun owners never make the news, and most people never even know they are armed. The ones that cause all the trouble are the ones that should never have a firearm to being with, and quite frankly suffer from a severe case of "small man syndrome" and a gun makes them feel powerful.

    As responsible gun owners we should want to distance ourselves from the gun owners who like to stir the pot and cause trouble. The type of guys that need to jack their truck up to the point it can't be used for actual work, have to wear loud clothing to draw attention to themselves, and of course feel the need to open carry in public not because they feel threatened, but just for the attention it draws. Lets face facts, when someone is exercising their right to conceal carry they aren't drawing unnecessary attention to themselves and they totally blend in. Someone open carrying is simply drawing unnecessary attention to themselves. The second amendment ensures we have the right to bear arms and that will never change, there really isn't any good reason to stir up trouble and all the negative attention that open carry draws. To anyone who really thinks that they are protecting the second amendment by practicing open carry you really need to know how our government works. Amending the constitution is so difficult that it nears the impossible, that is why it is hardly ever done. Taking your gun to a Walmart on full display isn't protecting the second amendment its stirring the pot, drawing attention and loudly broadcasting "look at me". I feel sorry for someone who needs that much attention, but they also make life harder for responsible gun owners just so they can get that added attention.

    I've heard all the arguments for exercising the right to open carry, and while I believe every state should have the right to open carry I also believe that responsible gun owners should carry concealed and not draw all the unnecessary attention. Lets fact it, you and your family are just as safe if you are practicing concealed carry. In fact I would make the argument you are more safe practicing concealed carry as you aren't drawing the unneeded attention.
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  8. #187
    VIP Member Array CDW4ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    It is my not so humble and not popular opinion that "concealed means concealed" has done more damage to the right to bear arms than any rifle carrier in Wal Mart simply because if folks had been open carrying all along the public would already be accustomed to the sight of guns in daily life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    My opinion quoted above is based on simple human nature to become accustomed to something seen often as something accepted to see....

    https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is...uation-2795233

    When and Why Does Habituation Occur?
    The more we encounter something, the less likely we are to react
    -snip-

    That which is hidden is not ordinary to see but that which is ordinarily seen becomes accepted as ordinary to see.
    I'm going to use two analogies, stick with me.

    I sometimes take my dogs to a restaurant with dog friendly outdoor patio.
    I'm not doing it to prove a point, nor to influence people's opinion; I'm doing it because they (the business) allows it and it is fun, I (we) like it.
    Nobody ever says anything except a positive comment.
    Applying the logic of some that OC the people that walk by saying nothing must approve of my dogs at the business, or they didn't notice them.
    When we go "out to eat" we try to support the restaurants that welcome our pets, wouldn't want to to go out of business and lose our "right".
    Applying the logic of some open carriers, people will be more accepting of dogs in public places the more they are seen, habituation right?
    Add Meijers and Aldi to the list of stores banning OC-lunchjuly4th.jpg

    I've seen "alcohol and guns don't mix" attitude posted on the forum, as if any amount of alcohol is "bad".
    For example #2 I'm going to be like the folks that OC at Wal-Mart or wherever just so people will see it, in that I am doing it just to make a point.
    In the pic showing concealed carry in summer attire, I've intentionally placed a beer on the table, its not open, heck it wasn't even cold, its just for people to see.
    Seeing a beer pictured with concealed carry, that will positively influence the "alcohol and guns don't mix" folks, habituation right?
    Add Meijers and Aldi to the list of stores banning OC-july18b.jpg

    Can we entertain the notion that neither will change anybody's opinion (or increase their acceptance) if they don't like it, just like OC at Wal-Mart/Kroger.
    AzQkr and maxwell97 like this.
    I'm not inclined to disarm for a concert, game, (entertainment) and I ain't going on a plane or cruise.
    "Wouldn't want to or Nobody volunteer to" get shot by _____ is not indicative of quickly incapacitating.

  9. #188
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    It is my not so humble and not popular opinion that "concealed means concealed" has done more damage to the right to bear arms than any rifle carrier in Wal Mart simply because if folks had been open carrying all along the public would already be accustomed to the sight of guns in daily life.
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    My opinion quoted above is based on simple human nature to become accustomed to something seen often as something accepted to see....

    https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is...uation-2795233

    When and Why Does Habituation Occur?
    The more we encounter something, the less likely we are to react
    -snip-

    That which is hidden is not ordinary to see but that which is ordinarily seen becomes accepted as ordinary to see.
    I'm going to use two analogies, stick with me.

    I sometimes take my dogs to a restaurant with dog friendly outdoor patio.
    I'm not doing it to prove a point, nor to influence people's opinion; I'm doing it because they (the business) allows it and it is fun, I (we) like it.
    Nobody ever says anything except a positive comment.
    Applying the logic of some that OC the people that walk by saying nothing must approve of my dogs at the business, or they didn't notice them.
    When we go "out to eat" we try to support the restaurants that welcome our pets, wouldn't want to to go out of business and lose our "right".
    Applying the logic of some open carriers, people will be more accepting of dogs in public places the more they are seen, habituation right?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    I've seen "alcohol and guns don't mix" attitude posted on the forum, as if any amount of alcohol is "bad".
    For example #2 I'm going to be like the folks that OC at Wal-Mart or wherever just so people will see it, in that I am doing it just to make a point.
    In the pic showing concealed carry in summer attire, I've intentionally placed a beer on the table, its not open, heck it wasn't even cold, its just for people to see.
    Seeing a beer pictured with concealed carry, that will positively influence the "alcohol and guns don't mix" folks, habituation right?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Can we entertain the notion that neither will change anybody's opinion (or increase their acceptance) if they don't like it, just like OC at Wal-Mart/Kroger.
    It is human nature for that which is ordinarily seen to soon become accepted as ordinary to see. The catch is enough people have to do it in order for it to become ordinary to see.

    Doesn't matter if it is dogs, tattoos, gay people, or guns. Approval isn't necessary but hiding them doesn't do anything for accepting them as ordinary to see. I don't approve of tattoos but I see them almost every time I go out in public so seeing someone with tats has become no big deal. And because I got used to seeing them I hardly ever notice them anymore. Habituation at work.

    And I am of the opinion that the present situation where seeing a gun, any kind of gun, is (with the exception of States like Arizona where lots of people have been open carrying for decades... hint) such an unusual event it gathers attention. Usually negative attention because folks haven't become accustomed to seeing guns since habituation never had a chance to happen.

    I am well aware I am going against the whole "concealed means concealed" and the vaunted "element of surprise" mindset and that is ruffling feathers. Yet if folks don't see guns in everyday life how will they become used to seeing guns as anything other than scary things people hide? Which brings me back to my opinion that the present atmosphere of guns in public being scary things happened because we have been hiding our guns for so many decades society hasn't had the opportunity to experience the human nature of acceptance through habituation.
    tcbradbury98 likes this.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  10. #189
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    It is human nature for that which is ordinarily seen to soon become accepted as ordinary to see. The catch is enough people have to do it in order for it to become ordinary to see.

    Doesn't matter if it is dogs, tattoos, gay people, or guns. Approval isn't necessary but hiding them doesn't do anything for accepting them as ordinary to see. I don't approve of tattoos but I see them almost every time I go out in public so seeing someone with tats has become no big deal. And because I got used to seeing them I hardly ever notice them anymore. Habituation at work.

    And I am of the opinion that the present situation where seeing a gun, any kind of gun, is (with the exception of States like Arizona where lots of people have been open carrying for decades... hint) such an unusual event it gathers attention. Usually negative attention because folks haven't become accustomed to seeing guns since habituation never had a chance to happen.

    I am well aware I am going against the whole "concealed means concealed" and the vaunted "element of surprise" mindset and that is ruffling feathers. Yet if folks don't see guns in everyday life how will they become used to seeing guns as anything other than scary things people hide? Which brings me back to my opinion that the present atmosphere of guns in public being scary things happened because we have been hiding our guns for so many decades society hasn't had the opportunity to experience the human nature of acceptance through habituation.
    It's generally accepted that about 3 million people carry guns daily in the US. There's 327 million people in the US. So roughly 1% of the population carries daily. That means for every 100 people there's roughly 3.2 people carrying a gun. That suggests even if every carrier open carried in public every day, they would never rise the level of "acceptance" by being seen carrying, the numbers don't support the notion that "ordinarily seen" would ever become accepted as ordinary to see.

    Now take half that number that won't OC even when they can legally and at best you have less that 2 people per hundred, hardly a number that will ever rise to a level of 'acceptance" by the remaining populace. It sounds good on paper and in print like here, until one actually looks at the numbers.

    Some people live in the real world and others choose to live their lives altruistically based on misguided/errant opinions, simply based on the numbers. Sorry to have to be the one to pop your bubble about OC becoming acceptable if everyone would just open carry.

    As for your Az comment "with the exception of States like Arizona where lots of people have been open carrying for decades." Not sure what you define as "lots" of people, but having lived here for 15 years, I rarely see an OC'er anywhere. Having owned an ffl, having worked for 2 ffls in that 15 years, open carry into those shops was seen but rarely. Might even rise to the level of the less than 2 per 100 customers that carry open or concealed on a daily basis. It's just not as prevalent as some suggest out here.
    maxwell97 likes this.

  11. #190
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    It's generally accepted that about 3 million people carry guns daily in the US. There's 327 million people in the US. So roughly 1% of the population carries daily. That means for every 100 people there's roughly 3.2 people carrying a gun. That suggests even if every carrier open carried in public every day, they would never rise the level of "acceptance" by being seen carrying, the numbers don't support the notion that "ordinarily seen" would ever become accepted as ordinary to see.

    Now take half that number that won't OC even when they can legally and at best you have less that 2 people per hundred, hardly a number that will ever rise to a level of 'acceptance" by the remaining populace. It sounds good on paper and in print like here, until one actually looks at the numbers.

    Some people live in the real world and others choose to live their lives altruistically based on misguided/errant opinions, simply based on the numbers. Sorry to have to be the one to pop your bubble about OC becoming acceptable if everyone would just open carry.

    As for your Az comment "with the exception of States like Arizona where lots of people have been open carrying for decades." Not sure what you define as "lots" of people, but having lived here for 15 years, I rarely see an OC'er anywhere. Having owned an ffl, having worked for 2 ffls in that 15 years, open carry into those shops was seen but rarely. Might even rise to the level of the less than 2 per 100 customers that carry open or concealed on a daily basis. It's just not as prevalent as some suggest out here.
    Not sure where you got your numbers but using your numbers if 3.2 people per 100 were open carrying then in a town with a population of 1000 32 people would be open carrying. In a city with a population of 10,000 people 320 people would be open carrying. And a big city with a population of 100,000 people 3200 would be open carrying. Seems to me that would make seeing one or more open carriers every day very likely. If not everyday at least once or twice a week. And that much exposure would contribute to people becoming accustomed to seeing guns during their daily/weekly lives just from habituation.

    Using the argument that open carry won't work because not enough people are open carrying shows not enough people are open carrying to allow guns in public to become ordinary to see.

    Your not having seen open carry on a regular basis in your area makes the case that even in your own experience not enough folks are open carrying to make the sight of guns ordinary for you.

    But since open carriers are rare in most parts of the country the public doesn't have the opportunity to become accustomed to seeing guns. And, in my opinion that is our own fault because many gun folks are still thinking "concealed means concealed" translates into "keeping it hidden protects the right while open carry scares people into passing more anti gun laws".

    I kinda like the idea of 3,200 daily open carriers in a city with a population of 100,000. And that there are many cities with that kind of population numbers in the country. Methinks that would do a great deal in making the sight of guns an ordinary thing and would make politicians take note of the right to bear arms also.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  12. #191
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    The point was/is, that even in a very open carry state like Az, there's not enough carrying openly to ever become acceptable through familiarity on a daily basis. You're asking everyone to open carry who can and as we see here so often, there's few who are willing to OC for one reason or another.

    So, in the final analysis, if everyone carried openly there wouldn't be enough to have it seem prevalent. You're still speaking altruistically in lieu of realistically.

    Prevalent, widespread in a particular area or at a particular time.. 3% of any group will never become or seem prevalent as you suggested, and that's if everyone carried open that carries daily.
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  13. #192
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    The point was/is, that even in a very open carry state like Az, there's not enough carrying openly to ever become acceptable through familiarity on a daily basis. You're asking everyone to open carry who can and as we see here so often, there's few who are willing to OC for one reason or another.

    So, in the final analysis, if everyone carried openly there wouldn't be enough to have it seem prevalent. You're still speaking altruistically in lieu of realistically.

    Prevalent, widespread in a particular area or at a particular time.. 3% of any group will never become or seem prevalent as you suggested, and that's if everyone carried open that carries daily.
    I have been putting forth the opinion that gun folks have themselves to blame for the public not being accustomed to seeing guns since there have not been, and still are not, enough gun folks willing to open carry for the public to see.

    I am also of the opinion that the anti gunners have been very successful at intimidating gun folks into hiding their guns in order to avoid negative comments, shunning, not fitting in, and even being inconvenienced by spending a few moments explaining the right to bear arms to someone curious.

    And still using your own numbers in post #189 of 3.2 gun carriers per 100 folks making 3200 open carriers in a population of 100,000 would go a long way to making open carry ordinary to see. Maybe even prevalent in certain areas at certain times.

    But History has shown that hiding our guns hasn't done squat for making the sight of guns ordinary. Nor has hiding our guns slowed or stopped the anti gun agenda. Now that is being realistic. And, at least in my opinion, hiding our guns has helped the anti gun agenda as they sensationalize the sight of a gun as a scary thing to further their agenda of banning, confiscating, and outlawing guns.
    Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts

  14. #193
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy44mag View Post
    I know I'm probably not going to be real popular with posting my viewpoint on this topic, but here it goes anyway. First of all, I have been shooting since I was about 8 and have owned and had full access to guns for what seems like my whole life. Its just part of growing up on and running a farm. I have many different rifles, shotguns and handguns, although were I'm from they are really used more as "tools" than defensive weapons. I board and train horses so I have to keep my ponds free of muskrat, my fields free from woodchucks, and my property free from scavenging coyotes after my chickens, and black bear after my bins of horse feed. Really the two firearms I use most are a .22 rifle and my .44mag (Ruger Super Blackhawk). I have the necessary permit for concealed carry although I rarely do so anymore.

    With that said, I actually agree with Walmart and the other retailers that are politely requesting customers not open carry in their stores. One has to remember for every responsible gun owner out there, there is at least one person who has a firearm and should never be trusted with a butter knife. The responsible gun owners never make the news, and most people never even know they are armed. The ones that cause all the trouble are the ones that should never have a firearm to being with, and quite frankly suffer from a severe case of "small man syndrome" and a gun makes them feel powerful.

    As responsible gun owners we should want to distance ourselves from the gun owners who like to stir the pot and cause trouble. The type of guys that need to jack their truck up to the point it can't be used for actual work, have to wear loud clothing to draw attention to themselves, and of course feel the need to open carry in public not because they feel threatened, but just for the attention it draws. Lets face facts, when someone is exercising their right to conceal carry they aren't drawing unnecessary attention to themselves and they totally blend in. Someone open carrying is simply drawing unnecessary attention to themselves. The second amendment ensures we have the right to bear arms and that will never change, there really isn't any good reason to stir up trouble and all the negative attention that open carry draws. To anyone who really thinks that they are protecting the second amendment by practicing open carry you really need to know how our government works. Amending the constitution is so difficult that it nears the impossible, that is why it is hardly ever done. Taking your gun to a Walmart on full display isn't protecting the second amendment its stirring the pot, drawing attention and loudly broadcasting "look at me". I feel sorry for someone who needs that much attention, but they also make life harder for responsible gun owners just so they can get that added attention.

    I've heard all the arguments for exercising the right to open carry, and while I believe every state should have the right to open carry I also believe that responsible gun owners should carry concealed and not draw all the unnecessary attention. Lets fact it, you and your family are just as safe if you are practicing concealed carry. In fact I would make the argument you are more safe practicing concealed carry as you aren't drawing the unneeded attention.
    Rights are not contingent on other peopleís actions. It doesnít matter who makes the news and who doesnít. Itís arguable whether someone can protect themself as well by concealed carrying as open carrying. I think I can protect myself best with a rifle. I settle for a pistol because itís easier to manage with day to day activities. You talk about people stirring the pot, but when it comes down to it, people open carry and they go run their errands, and go home. Itís the people who donít open carry whonturn it into a big deal.You believe people should carry concealed, and thatís fine, but other people disagree. The argument could be made that the only reason people would carry concealed instead of openly is because they feel cool because they are hiding a gun, but that would be as absurd as the argument you just presented.

    Welcome to the forum!
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  15. #194
    New Member Array cowboy44mag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    Rights are not contingent on other peopleís actions. It doesnít matter who makes the news and who doesnít. Itís arguable whether someone can protect themself as well by concealed carrying as open carrying. I think I can protect myself best with a rifle. I settle for a pistol because itís easier to manage with day to day activities. You talk about people stirring the pot, but when it comes down to it, people open carry and they go run their errands, and go home. Itís the people who donít open carry whonturn it into a big deal.You believe people should carry concealed, and thatís fine, but other people disagree. The argument could be made that the only reason people would carry concealed instead of openly is because they feel cool because they are hiding a gun, but that would be as absurd as the argument you just presented.

    Welcome to the forum!
    Thanks for the welcome

    I do understand where you are coming from, however even if that guy feels "cool" because he is concealed carrying he is the only one who knows it. It may give him a boost or an extra swagger, but its not going to be drawing the attention of everyone around him... that's the "look at me" effect. I can remember in my area, out in the sticks, that most everyone use to open carry handguns during hunting season, and would keep rifles in racks in their trucks for what seemed near year long. Then city folk started building subdivisions closer to town to get away from the city and it was no longer socially acceptable to OC in town. It happens, changing times. You either change with it or you get left behind. The fact of the matter is people who conceal carry or open carry are vastly outnumbered by people who don't and people who would be much happier if the only people armed out in public were police. These damn mass shootings carried out by mentally ill people who should have never been able to obtain the guns they had have turned up the heat on all of us. Encouraging more people to OC in these changing times is only going to ramp up gun laws, and make more businesses take a stand against carrying guns in their stores. Stores of course don't want to loose business, but if they have to choose between people who OC and people who don't want to be around armed strangers they will come down on the side with the numerical advantage, its just business. Sure it will be perfectly legal to OC outside, but it won't really matter if store after store after store won't allow you to come in with your gun. Sometimes when you force the issue you end up with an outcome that you didn't want.

  16. #195
    Member Array M1911A1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboy44mag View Post
    ...These damn mass shootings carried out by mentally ill people who should have never been able to obtain the guns they had have turned up the heat on all of us...
    The "heat" was being "turned up" on us long before the mass shootings we've seen.
    As the "peace and love generation" came of age, they brought their prejudices with them, and began to politically attack the concept of violence, even in self defense. This included an attack on civilian-owned guns.

    I suggest that the insane folks who perpetrate mass shootings have been made unbalanced by a combination of the self-centeredness taught by the "peace and love" people, the failure of those peace-and-love-generation parents to teach social engagement and social responsibility, and the easy out provided by corrupt politicians preaching entitlement and free stuff.

    If one doesn't have a direction and purpose in life, the tendency is to feel futile in one's aimlessness, hopeless and despondent from purposelessness, and to hate people who have direction and purpose and appear successful.
    "I'm important. Why don't I feel good?" leads to anti-social behavior, and that can sometimes be murderous.

    (Note: All the above is only a theory. I'm not a sociologist, or a psychologist either, for that matter.)



    BTW, just a hint: Paragraphing is your friend. It makes your writing much easier to read, and easier to reply to, also.
    forester58, msgt/ret and Havok like this.
    Steve
    Retired Leathersmith and Practical Shooter

    "Qui desiderat pacem, prśparet bellum."

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