May Have to Start OCing - Page 3

May Have to Start OCing

This is a discussion on May Have to Start OCing within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Open carry is a horrendous idea because it places you in the position of having to be the person who's reacting. Whether it's to a ...

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  1. #31
    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
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    Open carry is a horrendous idea because it places you in the position of having to be the person who's reacting. Whether it's to a gun grab or somebody calling the cops and telling them that you're waving your gun around in Walmart you've given the other person the initiative to make the first move.

    There was a Facebook group a while back that was specifically advocating that if its members were to see somebody open carrying they should call police and tell the police whatever it takes to get them to come out and prone the guy out and teach him a lesson. I'm really surprised but Facebook did actually close the group.

    When John Crawford was killed the 911 audio tapes prove that the guy that called in the report was lying. He told the 911 dispatcher that he was watching the guy load the rifle from a box of ammunition. Crawford was carrying a BB gun. The guy that called 911 later told his friends that he wanted to teach that racial expletive deleted a lesson. No charges were filed.

    I suspect this behavior is going to become more prevalent. Especially for those to choose to open carry long guns.

    If somebody does that to you your first warning may be when the cops show up and prone you out.

    As far as gun grabs go, I don't care about statistic insignificance or outliers. I've had three people try to take my gun off me. That that was enough to convince me that open carry makes you a target . I will never open carry again unless I'm required to do so as part of my job assignment

  2. #32
    VIP Member Array Fizban's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSafety View Post
    My neighbor from across the street came up to us as wife and I were leaving our project house. Evidently a new neighbor has been checking out the truck in the driveway and the house, several mornings from about 10 to noon. I may have to start open carrying when I go there to check the mail box across the street and work on the house.
    what is displaying a firearm intended to do exactly? Of all the avenues which can be taken in an effort to manage whatever problem you suspect is afoot, why do you ( if thats the case) think this is a "gun situation"?
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Agreed on both counts.



    This the most oft-quote bit of unsubstantiated hype against OC I've seen during the last decade I've seen both sides debate OC. To date, there remains absolutely zero statistically significant evidence that you're any more likely to be a target just because your firearm is visible, and considerable evidence to the contrary.

    Thought experiment:

    A robber spies to people walking along the sidewalks at opposite sides of the block. One is OC, the other isn't showing. Given known annual averages, he knows there's only a 1 in 85 chance the guy who isn't showing is carrying a firearm (yes, those are indeed national averages).

    The robber:

    A) Takes his chances with the guy he knows with 100% certainty is carrying a firearm.

    B) Takes his chances with the guy he knows with reasonably certain only has a 1.2% chance is carrying a firearm.

    Remember the old adage: "There are many fish in the sea." While tangle with a shark on one side of the boat when there's a tuna on the other side of the boat?

    Robbers don't go after carriers in an attempt to procure a firearm. They put on their burglary hats and break into vehicles and homes, instead.

    Out of all the guns used in Chicago's murders, what percentage of them were taken away from someone who OC's?

    Exactly.
    I don't know you but this statement sounds like something a person would say who has very little experience with criminals and is simply applying the logic typically employed by average law abiding people with good common sense. That may not be the case here but its the sense I get from simply reading these few words. I will say that violent crime is often very unreasonable and does not live within the nice little frame that you are seemingly trying to put it in.

    Out of all the guns used in Chicago's murders, what percentage of them were taken away from someone who OC's?
    how many citizen open carriers are there in Chicago? You may as well be looking for a unicorn

    I consider a gun grab to be one of the least likely perils but it does occur with citizen as well as LEOs. Its a realistic concern which should not be short changed. Even a cursory search of the web will yield plenty of examples.

    Man walking down State Street gets holstered weapon stolen
    Gun stolen from open carrier at Walmart 12-2017
    Man robbed of gun he was openly carrying- Newport News Va
    Open carrier shot at by passing car
    Louisiana man attempts to steal gun openly carried
    Foodlion guard assassinated for his gun
    Open Carrier attacked in wal-mart
    Man Practicing open carry robbed of gun- Gresham Oregon
    Open carriers gun stolen off his hip
    Student robbed of openly carried firearm
    Man stalked and attacked LEO for his openly carried firearm
    Man Openly carrying his gun robbed at gunpoint
    Man robbed of his gun at E.C gas station
    Open Carry Gun Owner Robbed of brand new gun
    Teens relieve dog walker of openly carried gun
    Open Carry enthusiast robbed at gunpoint.
    Man Proudly “open carrying” new pistol is robbed of it
    Open carry individual robbed at gunpoint — Milwaukee
    Medford Police responded assault and robbery , man reportedly followed to bathroom punched in face,.. firearm taken.
    Man steals NYPD officers weapon, shoots deli clerk.
    Man has shotgun ripped from his hands while investigating noise outside his home
    Chatty smoker steals gun from open carrier
    Man buying smokes gets openly carried firearm and holster taken

    The idea that displaying a firearm is going to invoke some sort of trepidation or compliance is rather naďve unless a person knows exactly who and what they are dealing with. Law abiding people who use themselves as a template when trying to predict the actions of violent predatory criminals will often find themselves coming up rather lacking in their predictions.
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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    I don't know you but this statement sounds like something a person would say who has very little experience with criminals and is simply applying the logic typically employed by average law abiding people with good common sense. That may not be the case here but its the sense I get from simply reading these few words. I will say that violent crime is often very unreasonable and does not live within the nice little frame that you are seemingly trying to put it in.

    I consider a gun grab to be one of the least likely perils but it does occur with citizen as well as LEOs. Its a realistic concern which should not be short changed. Even a cursory search of the web will yield plenty of examples.

    Man walking down State Street gets holstered weapon stolen
    Gun stolen from open carrier at Walmart 12-2017
    Man robbed of gun he was openly carrying- Newport News Va
    Open carrier shot at by passing car
    Louisiana man attempts to steal gun openly carried
    Foodlion guard assassinated for his gun
    Open Carrier attacked in wal-mart
    Man Practicing open carry robbed of gun- Gresham Oregon
    Open carriers gun stolen off his hip
    Student robbed of openly carried firearm
    Man stalked and attacked LEO for his openly carried firearm
    Man Openly carrying his gun robbed at gunpoint
    Man robbed of his gun at E.C gas station
    Open Carry Gun Owner Robbed of brand new gun
    Teens relieve dog walker of openly carried gun
    Open Carry enthusiast robbed at gunpoint.
    Man Proudly “open carrying” new pistol is robbed of it
    Open carry individual robbed at gunpoint – Milwaukee
    Medford Police responded assault and robbery , man reportedly followed to bathroom punched in face,.. firearm taken.
    Man steals NYPD officers weapon, shoots deli clerk.
    Man has shotgun ripped from his hands while investigating noise outside his home
    Chatty smoker steals gun from open carrier
    Man buying smokes gets openly carried firearm and holster taken

    The idea that displaying a firearm is going to invoke some sort of trepidation or compliance is rather naďve unless a person knows exactly who and what they are dealing with. Law abiding people who use themselves as a template when trying to predict the actions of violent predatory criminals will often find themselves coming up rather lacking in their predictions.
    The criminally violent don't think like other people do. They have morals, ethics, scruples and goals, but those qualities are vastly different from the ones of the law-abiding. Violence is their vocation, and they treat it as such. Believing them to be inept, cowardly or otherwise dazzled by demonstrations of gun-packing bravado can, as demonstrated by the examples you cited, the formula for failure on the part of those who believe the gun to be a talisman that wards off evil.
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  6. #35
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    If I remember correctly, the OP has made similar posts regarding OC and got darn near the same response as we see here. What I am seeing as a fairly consistent consensus is that OC is not viewed as a good response to this sort of issue.
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  7. #36
    VIP Member Array SatCong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    Open carry is a horrendous idea because it places you in the position of having to be the person who's reacting. Whether it's to a gun grab or somebody calling the cops and telling them that you're waving your gun around in Walmart you've given the other person the initiative to make the first move.

    There was a Facebook group a while back that was specifically advocating that if its members were to see somebody open carrying they should call police and tell the police whatever it takes to get them to come out and prone the guy out and teach him a lesson. I'm really surprised but Facebook did actually close the group.

    When John Crawford was killed the 911 audio tapes prove that the guy that called in the report was lying. He told the 911 dispatcher that he was watching the guy load the rifle from a box of ammunition. Crawford was carrying a BB gun. The guy that called 911 later told his friends that he wanted to teach that racial expletive deleted a lesson. No charges were filed.

    I suspect this behavior is going to become more prevalent. Especially for those to choose to open carry long guns.

    If somebody does that to you your first warning may be when the cops show up and prone you out.

    As far as gun grabs go, I don't care about statistic insignificance or outliers. I've had three people try to take my gun off me. That that was enough to convince me that open carry makes you a target . I will never open carry again unless I'm required to do so as part of my job assignment
    Here in Arizona we can do both OC or CC. And I do both. And as of now no one tried to take my weapon. your first warning may be when the cops show up and prone you out. What type of area do you live in?
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  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Fizban's Avatar
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    And as of now no one tried to take my weapon
    That's sort of like saying that you have been riding a motorcycle without a helmet for 10 years and have not had a wreck. Its doesn't mean anything towards predicting or mitigating the potential for a person to have an accident. We simply concede that substantial numbers of people ride motorcycles and a good many of them have wrecks which may or many not have been their fault. Open carrying is a rather fringe mode of carry among an already small number of people who carry at all. I say this as a person who lives in an Open Carry State where hardly anyone open carries. I have had the occasion to observe 5 or 6 open carriers in a span of 30 years. I would say that the number of people who oc in this country who are not on-duty LEOs are miniscule and yet obviously they still manage to be targeted for their weapon. As I said previously, its a rather minor concern when weighing OC as a tactic but still, its worth being realistic the potential perils.
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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    Then he can rob you while you are away from home because he knows you have firearms.
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  10. #39
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    It always seems to me that MOST, not all, people who are the most rabid about the practice of OC are somewhat frightened of other people and try to use the outward carry of the gun as a talisman of sorts.
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  11. #40
    Nix
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    It always seems to me that MOST, not all, people who are the most rabid about the practice of OC are somewhat frightened of other people and try to use the outward carry of the gun as a talisman of sorts.
    "speak softly and carry a big caliber." You and I sorta think alike, G-man.
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  12. #41
    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SatCong View Post
    Here in Arizona we can do both OC or CC. And I do both. And as of now no one tried to take my weapon. your first warning may be when the cops show up and prone you out. What type of area do you live in?
    Okay nobody's ever tried to take your gun. Your experience is not mine, people have tried to take my gun. Whose experience is more valid?

    Also please note I never said you shouldn't open carry. What I said was that I will never open carry again.
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  13. #42
    Nix
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    Okay nobody's ever tried to take your gun. Your experience is not mine, people have tried to take my gun. Whose experience is more valid?

    Also please note I never said you shouldn't open carry. What I said was that I will never open carry again.

    I presume you mean, "I will never open carry again [around town or social situations]". I don't OC in crowds, but definitely OC when I'm in the woods or hunting. Especially if I have a pack on. It's not unusual for me to walk into a gas station convenience store with a .44 in a chest rig on my way home from the woods. Sometimes I leave the firearm in the truck, sometimes not.
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  14. #43
    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nix View Post
    I presume you mean, "I will never open carry again [around town or social situations]".
    I said it a little more clearly in post 31 but unless I am specifically required to open carry by my job (security) I will never open carry again, regardless of venue.

    I'm not saying no one should open carry, I'm saying I won't.
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  15. #44
    Senior Member Array Cypher's Avatar
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    I don't think most open carriers have any idea who they're dealing with. This guy gave no warning, he punched the victim out and took his phone. Do you really think someone like that would hesitate over your Security Nine in a cheap nylon holster?

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  16. #45
    DG
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    If you're open carrying to make a political statement or prove a point, you're doing it wrong.
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