Second Amendment "Auditor" Arrested and Charged - Page 5

Second Amendment "Auditor" Arrested and Charged

This is a discussion on Second Amendment "Auditor" Arrested and Charged within the Open Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Bikenut Interesting perspective coming from an Administrator of an internet forum concerned with gun rights that reaches a large number within the ...

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  1. #61
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    Interesting perspective coming from an Administrator of an internet forum concerned with gun rights that reaches a large number within the gun community.

    But this forum is really private property and the owner's have the private property right to have whatever perspective they wish and to have their representatives express that perspective.

    And when I joined this forum I agreed to abide by the rules the owner's of this private property have concerning what is allowed to be expressed. Much like private property business owners have the right to have rules about whether guns are allowed, or not allowed, to be carried on/in that private property. And as long as I wish to frequent this private property forum I will abide by the owner's rules just as I abide by any private property businesses rules about carrying guns (I won't sneak my gun in thinking it's OK to disrespect the owner's property rights because concealed means I won't get caught) regardless of my opinion of businesses that ban guns or my perspective concerning folks on forums who say they support the right to bear arms yet disparage, insult, indulge in name calling, and ridicule anyone who dares exercise that right in a way they don't agree with.

    It really is all about rights. Including the rights we personally might agree with yet disagree with how those rights are exercised.
    For the record, I am not in any way a owner or otherwise paid by the owners and my opinions are not their opinions.

    I've open carried on occasion, I will probably do so again on special occasion but for the most part it just doesn't fit with my lifestyle so I don't do it.

    Again, if that's how people want to do it, fine. Do it. But don't go tell me your fighting for 2A rights when you already have those rights and all you really manage to do is get that privilege revoked by businesses which have the right to do so and alienate voters that will elect anti-gun politicians with anti-gun agendas.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again.

    The majority of the firearms community including OpenCarry.Org does not support the open carry of long guns.

    So finding some poor schmuck that's a volunteer admin of a gun forum to throw stones at for not liking what somebody does shouldn't be all that much of a shock.

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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post

    The majority of the firearms community including OpenCarry.Org does not support the open carry of long guns.
    The majority of the ďfirearms communityĒ owns a deer rifle and a bird gun and has no use for anything else. The majority of the ďfirearms communityĒ does not even carry a gun for protection. The majority of the people who have carry permits carry rarely, if ever. The majority of the voting population voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016. When something is not based on majority opinion, who cares what majority thinks?
    We get the government we deserve.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    -snip-
    So finding some poor schmuck that's a volunteer admin of a gun forum to throw stones at for not liking what somebody does shouldn't be all that much of a shock.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    And seeing gun owners/carriers including an Administrator of a gun forum that supposedly support the right to bear arms throwing stones at someone who exercises the right to bear arms in a way those folks don't like isn't much of a shock anymore either.

    Regardless I do not buy into the idea that rights are subject to individual personal (or societal) opinion of what is reasonable or acceptable. We either have rights or we only have privileges subject to personal opinion. Sadly many gun owners have bought into the idea that in order to protect the right to bear arms they must rail against anyone who doesn't bow to the opinions of how it is reasonable and acceptable to exercise that right.

    The right to bear arms is being destroyed by gun owners buying into the anti gun mantra of reasonable and acceptable.

    And while an Administrator is entitled to his opinions voicing those opinions on the forum hold more weight than an ordinary member and can easily be construed by folks to be the opinions and perspectives of the website's owner. In short, while the representatives of the property owner have the right to their own opinions they also have a responsibility to be careful to not let their position on the forum lend an inordinate amount of weight to the opinions they voice.
    Unfortunately there are many gun owners who will still shop at Wal Mart even though they know Wal Mart partnered with Everytown for Gun Safety just because it is convenient and they can save a few bucks.

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  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    And seeing gun owners/carriers including an Administrator of a gun forum that supposedly support the right to bear arms throwing stones at someone who exercises the right to bear arms in a way those folks don't like isn't much of a shock anymore either.

    Regardless I do not buy into the idea that rights are subject to individual personal (or societal) opinion of what is reasonable or acceptable. We either have rights or we only have privileges subject to personal opinion. Sadly many gun owners have bought into the idea that in order to protect the right to bear arms they must rail against anyone who doesn't bow to the opinions of how it is reasonable and acceptable to exercise that right.

    The right to bear arms is being destroyed by gun owners buying into the anti gun mantra of reasonable and acceptable.

    And while an Administrator is entitled to his opinions voicing those opinions on the forum hold more weight than an ordinary member and can easily be construed by folks to be the opinions and perspectives of the website's owner. In short, while the representatives of the property owner have the right to their own opinions they also have a responsibility to be careful to not let their position on the forum lend an inordinate amount of weight to the opinions they voice.
    I'm surprised that you so adamently defend a lawbreaker under the guise of "exercising his rights".
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  6. #65
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    And seeing gun owners/carriers including an Administrator of a gun forum that supposedly support the right to bear arms throwing stones at someone who exercises the right to bear arms in a way those folks don't like isn't much of a shock anymore either.

    Regardless I do not buy into the idea that rights are subject to individual personal (or societal) opinion of what is reasonable or acceptable. We either have rights or we only have privileges subject to personal opinion. Sadly many gun owners have bought into the idea that in order to protect the right to bear arms they must rail against anyone who doesn't bow to the opinions of how it is reasonable and acceptable to exercise that right.

    The right to bear arms is being destroyed by gun owners buying into the anti gun mantra of reasonable and acceptable.

    And while an Administrator is entitled to his opinions voicing those opinions on the forum hold more weight than an ordinary member and can easily be construed by folks to be the opinions and perspectives of the website's owner. In short, while the representatives of the property owner have the right to their own opinions they also have a responsibility to be careful to not let their position on the forum lend an inordinate amount of weight to the opinions they voice.
    God I hope so.

    With few exceptions, the open carry of long guns is dumb. The open carry of AR15 pistols is equally dumb. Dressing up in tac gear to go to Walmart is dumb (Murder Kroger gets a pass) doing the above after active shooters are turning Walmarts into shooting galleries is extra dumb.

    Legal as it may be, its dumb.

    As for @Havok , I will fine tune my list and narrow it down for you.

    Based on my observations of 13 years on this forum, a good 15 years interacting with some of the best instructors in this country and some of the most actively progun, pro carry, pro self defense applied violence nerds I've ever met and 20 years of interacting with LE / Mil (albeit in a non firearms related field, we still talk guns) I will say the following with ALL the weight I can muster with my little green digital crown.

    Not a single paid, armed professional is pro open carry of long guns*

    Not a single, national level, full time firearms instructor is pro open carry of long guns*

    Not a single person I know that is a well trained, 365+/- days a year carrier is pro open carry of long guns*

    The majority of this forum, (Really almost EVERY forum) that is slightly more actively engaged than your typcial bird gun only owner and apt to be pro open carry of handguns is not pro open carry of long guns*

    This is not something that even the majority of most engaged carriers want to see people doing.

    But we don't want it to be illegal either so we will continue to grind our teeth and shake our heads everytime someone feels like auditing a restaurant (a restaurant!!!!)on their 2A stance and yeah, we might call them names.

    But if someone is so dense as to carry guns into a legally off limits place and break local laws I think some randos on the internet calling them a douche canoe is the least of their worries.

    And if enough members get together and state a solid case to the owners and they see it fit to fire me, so be it. The open carry of long guns will still be dumb after I'm gone.











    *in urban environments.







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  7. #66
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    - don't these 'auditors' realize this crap was tried back in the 1960's?
    - the Panthers did the same thing... walking around with long-guns to excersize thier 2A rights..
    - didn't end well
    - in fact, legend has it that it started gun-control as we know it today...lol








    SAME CRAP DIFFERENT DAY! lol ^







    .

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    God I hope so.

    With few exceptions, the open carry of long guns is dumb. The open carry of AR15 pistols is equally dumb. Dressing up in tac gear to go to Walmart is dumb (Murder Kroger gets a pass) doing the above after active shooters are turning Walmarts into shooting galleries is extra dumb.

    Legal as it may be, its dumb.

    As for @Havok , I will fine tune my list and narrow it down for you.

    Based on my observations of 13 years on this forum, a good 15 years interacting with some of the best instructors in this country and some of the most actively progun, pro carry, pro self defense applied violence nerds I've ever met and 20 years of interacting with LE / Mil (albeit in a non firearms related field, we still talk guns) I will say the following with ALL the weight I can muster with my little green digital crown.

    Not a single paid, armed professional is pro open carry of long guns*

    Not a single, national level, full time firearms instructor is pro open carry of long guns*

    Not a single person I know that is a well trained, 365+/- days a year carrier is pro open carry of long guns*

    The majority of this forum, (Really almost EVERY forum) that is slightly more actively engaged than your typcial bird gun only owner and apt to be pro open carry of handguns is not pro open carry of long guns*

    This is not something that even the majority of most engaged carriers want to see people doing.

    But we don't want it to be illegal either so we will continue to grind our teeth and shake our heads everytime someone feels like auditing a restaurant (a restaurant!!!!)on their 2A stance and yeah, we might call them names.

    But if someone is so dense as to carry guns into a legally off limits place and break local laws I think some randos on the internet calling them a douche canoe is the least of their worries.

    And if enough members get together and state a solid case to the owners and they see it fit to fire me, so be it. The open carry of long guns will still be dumb after I'm gone.











    *in urban environments.







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    People who post on this forum, people who are instructors, and people youíve seen at training, etc are not the majority of gun owners. They are a small percentage. Not saying thatís a bad thing, but itís reality. Like it or not, Iím not alone in thinking that its not your, or governments business to decide what type of gun is or isnít ok to carry. Maybe thatís not the majority opinion, but it doesnít matter. In many states itís legal. Itís your choice whether or not you like it, but you will deal with it either way. Rights are not about majority opinion. Gun rights are not just about someone who wants to take your wallet.

    Quote Originally Posted by starlights View Post
    - don't these 'auditors' realize this crap was tried back in the 1960's?
    - the Panthers did the same thing... walking around with long-guns to excersize thier 2A rights..
    - didn't end well
    - in fact, legend has it that it started gun-control as we know it today...lol








    SAME CRAP DIFFERENT DAY! lol ^







    .
    People carrying long guns have done great things for Texas. Things are so great for gun rights in California I have no doubt youíd have constitutional carry if not for the black panthers.
    Bikenut likes this.
    We get the government we deserve.

  9. #68
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    God I hope so.

    With few exceptions, the open carry of long guns is dumb. The open carry of AR15 pistols is equally dumb. Dressing up in tac gear to go to Walmart is dumb (Murder Kroger gets a pass) doing the above after active shooters are turning Walmarts into shooting galleries is extra dumb.

    Legal as it may be, its dumb.

    As for @Havok , I will fine tune my list and narrow it down for you.

    Based on my observations of 13 years on this forum, a good 15 years interacting with some of the best instructors in this country and some of the most actively progun, pro carry, pro self defense applied violence nerds I've ever met and 20 years of interacting with LE / Mil (albeit in a non firearms related field, we still talk guns) I will say the following with ALL the weight I can muster with my little green digital crown.

    Not a single paid, armed professional is pro open carry of long guns*

    Not a single, national level, full time firearms instructor is pro open carry of long guns*

    Not a single person I know that is a well trained, 365+/- days a year carrier is pro open carry of long guns*

    The majority of this forum, (Really almost EVERY forum) that is slightly more actively engaged than your typcial bird gun only owner and apt to be pro open carry of handguns is not pro open carry of long guns*

    This is not something that even the majority of most engaged carriers want to see people doing.

    But we don't want it to be illegal either so we will continue to grind our teeth and shake our heads everytime someone feels like auditing a restaurant (a restaurant!!!!)on their 2A stance and yeah, we might call them names.

    But if someone is so dense as to carry guns into a legally off limits place and break local laws I think some randos on the internet calling them a douche canoe is the least of their worries.

    And if enough members get together and state a solid case to the owners and they see it fit to fire me, so be it. The open carry of long guns will still be dumb after I'm gone.











    *in urban environments.







    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
    If I read your post correctly you are OK with your opinions having the weight of your position as Administrator setting a tone, and a precedent, that ridiculing and insulting those who exercise the right to bear arms in ways individual personal opinion considers unreasonable and unacceptable is acceptable on the forum.

    As for all those folks you mentioned that are not pro open carry of long guns in urban areas? Again we are talking about the right to bear arms being subject to the opinions of others. The 2nd Amendment doesn't say "shall not be infringed except when some trainer or student the trainer trained (in fighting and to share his opinion) says exercising it is stupid". It is the very idea of a right being subject to mere opinion, even if (maybe especially if) that opinion comes from someone in the training field or a position of influence on a forum, that puts the right itself in danger. In danger not from anti gunners but from the supposed supporters of the right.

    There is a thing called the right to bear arms. And that right has enough enemies without having the gun community join those enemies in ridiculing and insulting those who exercise that right in ways that don't fit someone's opinion of what is reasonable or acceptable.

    Applying the personal standard of what is considered reasonable and acceptable when it comes to the right to bear arms is doing the exact same thing the anti gunners do. The only difference is in the degree of what is considered unreasonable and unacceptable. Such as some gun owners thinking carrying a long gun except in certain approved areas is unreasonable, and someone who carries it for a reason they consider unacceptable must be a tool while an anti gunner thinks everyone who has a gun for any reason anywhere is a tool.
    Unfortunately there are many gun owners who will still shop at Wal Mart even though they know Wal Mart partnered with Everytown for Gun Safety just because it is convenient and they can save a few bucks.

  10. #69
    Senior Member Array Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    And seeing gun owners/carriers including an Administrator of a gun forum that supposedly support the right to bear arms throwing stones at someone who exercises the right to bear arms in a way those folks don't like isn't much of a shock anymore either.

    Regardless I do not buy into the idea that rights are subject to individual personal (or societal) opinion of what is reasonable or acceptable. We either have rights or we only have privileges subject to personal opinion. Sadly many gun owners have bought into the idea that in order to protect the right to bear arms they must rail against anyone who doesn't bow to the opinions of how it is reasonable and acceptable to exercise that right.

    The right to bear arms is being destroyed by gun owners buying into the anti gun mantra of reasonable and acceptable.

    And while an Administrator is entitled to his opinions voicing those opinions on the forum hold more weight than an ordinary member and can easily be construed by folks to be the opinions and perspectives of the website's owner. In short, while the representatives of the property owner have the right to their own opinions they also have a responsibility to be careful to not let their position on the forum lend an inordinate amount of weight to the opinions they voice.
    I'm surprised that you so adamently defend a lawbreaker under the guise of "exercising his rights".
    Please reread my post(s). I believe you will find I haven't defended breaking the law (I spoke of opinion and didn't even mention the law in that post) but I have been adamantly defending the right to bear arms.

    However many folks posting negative posts are not talking about the fellow breaking the law but are insulting and ridiculing carrying a long gun and those who dare carry a long gun in spite of negative public opinion and the negative opinions of those within the gun community who have adopted the idea that bearing arms must be done only in ways that are "reasonable" and "acceptable". And it is that aspect that I am responding to.
    Havok likes this.
    Unfortunately there are many gun owners who will still shop at Wal Mart even though they know Wal Mart partnered with Everytown for Gun Safety just because it is convenient and they can save a few bucks.

  11. #70
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    Seems like some people are here to write about guns and self defense in a reasonable manner, while others are here to grandstand and in their attempts to normalize a right they will only cause havoc.

    I for one don't want to see any more 2nd Amendment infringements because some yahoos need to sling their AR while picking up groceries at the store and not only freaking out the general public but also creeping out most of us certified gun nuts...
    flintlock62 and scottync like this.

  12. #71
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    It seems important for me to add a refresher as to our original D.C. forum history.
    CombatCarry.com eventually became DefensiveCarry.com and both were originally created for members who legally carried a defensive firearm concealed.
    We were a concealed carry forum exclusively.
    As general OPEN carry became an increasingly popular mode of carry, we tried hard to accommodate those newer members.
    It was extremely problematic as those members were argumentative, insulting, disruptive etc.
    So....Moderators and Admin decided to give the open carry members their own area of the forum in order for them to have a place on the web to discuss issues related to the open carry of self-defensive firearms - where it was legal to do that.
    That did not work out very well. They just could not stay in their assigned area of the forum and continued to intrude in all other forum areas with disruptive and verbally abusive posts as related to concealed carry.
    We had no other viable option but to boot the majority of them off of D.C.

    So...they created an open carry forum which was just peachy keen and fine with us.
    We were not anti open carry. Some members thought it was never a way that they would carry. We were for the most part anti uncivilized forum behavior.

    Possibly an open carry forum would be the ideal spot on the internet to hash this open rifle carry all out.
    I don't think that very many minds are going to be changed either way here.
    Members who believe that it's stupid are going to continue to think that it's stupid and vice versa.


    Sort of reminds me of the guy that walked into a synagogue wearing a swastika armband.
    Naturally the Jewish congregation members were really very upset!
    He exclaimed that it wasn't a swastika...it was the ancient Native American symbol for LIFE!!!
    Well, technically he was 100% correct but, his action was still kind of dumb and offensive/ignorant.
    None of the congregation was swayed and they never started plastering the symbol for LIFE everywhere in the synagogue.


    Maybe if folks here understand that the majority of long time members here are concealed carry folks then a bit of tolerance will rule the day.
    Changing hearts and minds is incredibly difficult here as well as out in the real world.
    Taking into consideration the environment of this country today, personally I don't think that it's a wise action to panic other Americans just for the sake of doing that.
    I do understand the 2nd Amendment and our rights and where they originate from.
    However this is not Israel and it's not Iran and the general population here is perhaps not ready for folks walking around going food shopping along with a rifle.
    And honestly nobody is going to help them bite on that by doing it.
    In an ideal world that would be the case but, with all of the mass shootings etc...when the general population sees it...it screams Nut-Job!
    That is just the way it is no matter if I like it or not.
    I certainly am not empowered to prevent any individual from doing it. Whatever floats the old boat.
    But, I do believe that at this particular point in our American "present" that it's highly counterproductive.
    That may change at some future point in time but, I believe that now is probably not the time.
    After a few random and horrific terror attacks Americans would likely be more willing to accept it.
    For myself, I can pretty much look at anyone and ascertain if they are a likely threat or not.
    But, I do understand that the majority of my fellow humans do not possess that skill and I would expect them to hit 9.1.1. W/ a hasty, upset M.W.A.G. panicked call.
    It's the human nature of today that could possibly change later.
    For myself...I'm not looking for the attention.
    I have a life full of other things immediately more important to me than doing something that I'll never do.
    Moons ago I already did my fighting to get "may issue" changed to "Shall Issue" in Pennsylvania.
    This is just not my fight.

    Peace Out.
    Carry on.
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  13. #72
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    I like being able to have the discussion here on DC. I value having some of my thoughts, beliefs, and preconceptions challenged. I thought @Bikenut and @Havok made some points worth considering. (Sorry if I left out other pro-OC posters.)

    Having said that, I also like to see conversations kept on a respectful and civil plane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    So, how did they score on the audit?
    Zero. Big fat goose egg it looks like.


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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    It seems important for me to add a refresher as to our original D.C. forum history.
    CombatCarry.com eventually became DefensiveCarry.com and both were originally created for members who legally carried a defensive firearm concealed.
    We were a concealed carry forum exclusively.
    As general OPEN carry became an increasingly popular mode of carry, we tried hard to accommodate those newer members.
    It was extremely problematic as those members were argumentative, insulting, disruptive etc.
    So....Moderators and Admin decided to give the open carry members their own area of the forum in order for them to have a place on the web to discuss issues related to the open carry of self-defensive firearms - where it was legal to do that.
    That did not work out very well. They just could not stay in their assigned area of the forum and continued to intrude in all other forum areas with disruptive and verbally abusive posts as related to concealed carry.
    We had no other viable option but to boot the majority of them off of D.C.

    So...they created an open carry forum which was just peachy keen and fine with us.
    We were not anti open carry. Some members thought it was never a way that they would carry. We were for the most part anti uncivilized forum behavior.

    Possibly an open carry forum would be the ideal spot on the internet to hash this open rifle carry all out.
    I don't think that very many minds are going to be changed either way here.
    Members who believe that it's stupid are going to continue to think that it's stupid and vice versa.


    Sort of reminds me of the guy that walked into a synagogue wearing a swastika armband.
    Naturally the Jewish congregation members were really very upset!
    He exclaimed that it wasn't a swastika...it was the ancient Native American symbol for LIFE!!!
    Well, technically he was 100% correct but, his action was still kind of dumb and offensive/ignorant.
    None of the congregation was swayed and they never started plastering the symbol for LIFE everywhere in the synagogue.


    Maybe if folks here understand that the majority of long time members here are concealed carry folks then a bit of tolerance will rule the day.
    Changing hearts and minds is incredibly difficult here as well as out in the real world.
    Taking into consideration the environment of this country today, personally I don't think that it's a wise action to panic other Americans just for the sake of doing that.
    I do understand the 2nd Amendment and our rights and where they originate from.
    However this is not Israel and it's not Iran and the general population here is perhaps not ready for folks walking around going food shopping along with a rifle.
    And honestly nobody is going to help them bite on that by doing it.
    In an ideal world that would be the case but, with all of the mass shootings etc...when the general population sees it...it screams Nut-Job!
    That is just the way it is no matter if I like it or not.
    I certainly am not empowered to prevent any individual from doing it. Whatever floats the old boat.
    But, I do believe that at this particular point in our American "present" that it's highly counterproductive.
    That may change at some future point in time but, I believe that now is probably not the time.
    After a few random and horrific terror attacks Americans would likely be more willing to accept it.
    For myself, I can pretty much look at anyone and ascertain if they are a likely threat or not.
    But, I do understand that the majority of my fellow humans do not possess that skill and I would expect them to hit 9.1.1. W/ a hasty, upset M.W.A.G. panicked call.
    It's the human nature of today that could possibly change later.
    For myself...I'm not looking for the attention.
    I have a life full of other things immediately more important to me than doing something that I'll never do.
    Moons ago I already did my fighting to get "may issue" changed to "Shall Issue" in Pennsylvania.
    This is just not my fight.

    Peace Out.
    Carry on.
    Interesting and informative D. C. history. Thank you. And I mean that sincerely.

    One point I would like to make. I can't speak to how OC'ers behaved on this forum before I joined but I can say that since I joined it most assuredly appears to me the majority of the uncivility in the form of insults, ridicule, and name calling comes from posters who do not like OC. A quick reread of just this one thread will serve as an example.

    And the history of D. C. being a forum focused on concealed carry in the past is no excuse for that kind of behavior in the present from anyone.
    Havok likes this.
    Unfortunately there are many gun owners who will still shop at Wal Mart even though they know Wal Mart partnered with Everytown for Gun Safety just because it is convenient and they can save a few bucks.

  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by entertainment72 View Post
    Seems like some people are here to write about guns and self defense in a reasonable manner, while others are here to grandstand and in their attempts to normalize a right they will only cause havoc.

    I for one don't want to see any more 2nd Amendment infringements because some yahoos need to sling their AR while picking up groceries at the store and not only freaking out the general public but also creeping out most of us certified gun nuts...
    If you canít exercise a right because doing so will cause you to lose it then you didnít have the right to begin with.

    Have you ever seen anyone freak out because someone was open carrying? I havenít.
    We get the government we deserve.

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