Not happy - Page 2

Not happy

This is a discussion on Not happy within the Reloading forums, part of the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics category; Well, I don't know that is is the case lube, but the only two things that have changed are the press and the case lube ...

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  1. #16
    Senior Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    Well, I don't know that is is the case lube, but the only two things that have changed are the press and the case lube and I have to start somewhere. The case lube is the easiest variable to start with. The only other possibility that I can think of that I just screwed up when I setup the dies on the 550.

  2. #17
    Member Array noylj's Avatar
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    These may sound stupid, but all have happened.
    Case lube: try NOT using any for straight-wall pistol cartridges (assume you have carbide dies and not the old all-steel dies from pre-1980). I have only ever needed case lube on 9x19 cartridges and then, only about once every few years for no reason I can determine (as, the next day, no lubrication was needed).
    I STILL prefer my RCBS lube pad and lube as I have NEVER had a stuck case in over 45 years. Perfection like that can not be beat. I have also never needed any lube inside the case mouth as all my expander plugs for bottleneck cases just "glide" up without issue.
    Next, isn't the Dillon lube a spray that you allow to dry after spraying for 2-5 minutes and thus should have NO effect on powder?
    Did you WEIGH your charges being thrown to verify that your powder measure was throwing consistent and correct weight charges and keep checking every ten round or so until you KNOW things are going well?
    Do you inspect powder height in every case before placing a bullet on the charged case to verify the powder height is consistent?
    Did you first clean the powder measure and that cycle a whole hopper full of graphitized powder through it for internal lubrication (a hopper of graphite powder also works well). I like to clean all plastic parts with warm soapy water and allow to air dry (don't rinse as the residual very thin film of soap prevent static cling) and clean all metal parts with the Hornady Cleaner and Dry Lube (again, I let it air dry to keep the dry lube on the parts.
    Did you ensure that the Dillon measure had the correct charge bar installed for the weight of powder you were throwing (there are, I believe, extra small, small, large, and magnum charge bars)? I ask because so many people have cursed their measure because they have the rifle metering unit installed instead of the pistol (and vice versa).
    Did you completely re-set all dies to the new press. Known some folks who think you can just switch dies from one press to another without any issue.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array wondering's Avatar
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    This is an old thread but I'm curious if you were able to fix your accuracy problems.

    From what I've read, if there's too much case lube when fired, the round will slam back into the breech before it has time to expand to the chamber and this could cause your bullet to have a longer jump to the rifling and therefore hose up your accuracy. Were your fired rounds covered in powder (on the outside from the neck back) after they were ejected? That would be a sign that your cases weren't expanding in the chamber properly. You could also check the fired primers to see if they were flattened during firing.

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  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array FLSlim's Avatar
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    I'm also no sure about case lube being an issue. However, if you are going to change lubes for your .223, do a search online at spray case lube "recipes". I make my own using alcohol and lanolin mixed in a spray bottle. It is less expensive and works as good or better than Dillon and one shot.
    Chose a weapon that goes bang EVERY time!

  6. #20
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    FWIW- I've never used case lube on straight walled cartridges. I do use chrome polish and a dollop of liquid furniture wax in corn cob to finish the cases. Nothing I use has ammonia in it. I'm not saying this is true but my firm belief is that once the wax is on the die everything that comes after is good to go. Nothing wet like case lube ever comes close to my dies. I use a Loadmaster so obviously I'm not working towards perfect consistency, just volume. So, YMMV
    Last edited by oldIthink; January 13th, 2020 at 01:23 AM.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    Well, I haven't had a chance to work up new loads yet because of how much travel I have been doing for work, but I am beginning to think that the accuracy issue might have been me. And I think the SD is more the load than anything else.

    (mm and 45 are fine. Not sure what the issue was there, but the velocities came back up to what the normally are and the ES/SD went back down to what they normally are (SD in the low teens).

    For 223/5.56 I am planning on working up new loads starting a ladder slightly below my current load and working up to about half way between max for 223 and max for 5.56. The rifle is chambered for 5.56 and I am using LC brass so there should be no problems, but I will still be watching for signs of pressure. I am also going to try some AR-Comp and CFE223 and see how they compare to TAC.

    I already know that my previous powder measure (Lee Auto Disk Pro), while very consistent, didn't give me the flexibility of fine tuning my loads and I know that the load I am currently using is not optimal. I figure I am probably just better off starting over again from scratch now that I am using a powder measure that has shown me that it has good consistency and gives me the ability to fine tune my loads.

    I will have some time in February and March and am planning on using that time to see what I can do.

    As for using case lube on straight wall cases... The only straight wall cases I reload are for handgun, and no, I do not use any case lube for them. The only calibers I am using case lube for right now are 223/5.56 and 308 Win. Of course, I don't have any straight walled rifle calibers anyway, but I believe that it is also recommended to use case lube with them because of their length. Does anybody know about the straight walled rifle cartridges, like 45-70? Do they still require case lube?

  8. #22
    Ex Member Array oldIthink's Avatar
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    OH, well, I can't be of any help then because I don't reload rifle calibers. I'm thinking of starting with 7,62x39's because all my AR's are in this caliber. I simply like keeping the number of calibers to a minimum. Right now it's 9x19, .38/.357, and 9x18. But since I'm gaining in rifles I need to start thinking more seriously about rifle caliber reloading.

    Regardless, I don't reload with the intent to punch one hole in anything with multiple shots, I don't see well enough for that anymore. I hit my penny at 100yards one time with open sights, just like I bowled a 300 one time while sober; those will never be repeated again in my lifetime.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array Chuck R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackJack View Post
    Does anybody know about the straight walled rifle cartridges, like 45-70? Do they still require case lube?
    I've never seen or head of carbide dies for .45-70. I used to reload for it, and still load for .45-90 and .45-100. The cases although called "straight-walled" have just enough taper to rule out using a carbide resizer.

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  10. #24
    Member Array woolecox's Avatar
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    I have probably loaded over 10,000 rounds of various pistol ammo with my RL550B. Very easy to make match grade ammo with it as long as you use decent quality components. I got my Dillon after joining a local IDPA league about 15 years ago. The RL550 was the unanimous choice among the group for pistol reloading. I load my match ammo on it as well as my defensive carry loads and practice ammo. Very pleased.

    You need very little of the Dillon lube with carbide pistol dies. I put several hundred cases on a shoebox top (or similar) with the mouths facing away from me. Then just a couple of short sprays across the lot is all it takes. New brass, maybe one more squirt.

    However, loading rifle cartridges on this machine is a total PIA in my opinion. Especially 223/5.56. Unless you are using a very fine powder (like Ram TAC, etc.) the powder drop can dam up in the neck and cause some serious variations in powder charge. On the 650 and 750 machines, there is another station for a powder check. Not on the 550.

    I generally load rifle cartridges on a single stage. I lube the cases with something more substantial than the Dillon spray and put just a little on the inside of the neck. After sizing, I brush out the inside of the neck to keep powder from sticking and contaminating the charge.

    I will never load rifle on the 550 again but I am considering this:

    Not happy-dillon-bl550-reloader.jpg
    BL 550 BASIC LOADER

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Chuck R.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by woolecox View Post
    I have probably loaded over 10,000 rounds of various pistol ammo with my RL550B. Very easy to make match grade ammo with it as long as you use decent quality components. I got my Dillon after joining a local IDPA league about 15 years ago. The RL550 was the unanimous choice among the group for pistol reloading. I load my match ammo on it as well as my defensive carry loads and practice ammo. Very pleased.

    You need very little of the Dillon lube with carbide pistol dies. I put several hundred cases on a shoebox top (or similar) with the mouths facing away from me. Then just a couple of short sprays across the lot is all it takes. New brass, maybe one more squirt.

    However, loading rifle cartridges on this machine is a total PIA in my opinion. Especially 223/5.56. Unless you are using a very fine powder (like Ram TAC, etc.) the powder drop can dam up in the neck and cause some serious variations in powder charge. On the 650 and 750 machines, there is another station for a powder check. Not on the 550.

    I generally load rifle cartridges on a single stage. I lube the cases with something more substantial than the Dillon spray and put just a little on the inside of the neck. After sizing, I brush out the inside of the neck to keep powder from sticking and contaminating the charge.

    I will never load rifle on the 550 again but I am considering this:

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    BL 550 BASIC LOADER
    Why not just set up your RL550B with a tool head to do the same work?

    That's the approach I use. Disconnect and remove the primer feed activation bar, swap out the powder measure die, and you've got the same effect.

    For my AR15 3Gun and practice loads I have 2 tool heads for my 550B for loading .223/5.56. One is set up with just a sizing die, the other has the PM and seating dies. I case prep in a separate operation allowing me to; get the lube off in a vibratory cleaner, then trim using a Trimmit2 in a drill press. I then swap the tool heads and load. I use TAC or H335 as the extruded powders won't work well in the Dillon measures due to bridging etc.

    I load .223 using extruded powders for my coyote loads (AR15) and my precision bolt gun loads. Quantity is way less and I use a Harrell's measure .1 short and trickle to finish.
    homo homini lupus est

  12. #26
    Member Array woolecox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck R. View Post
    Why not just set up your RL550B with a tool head to do the same work?

    That's the approach I use. Disconnect and remove the primer feed activation bar, swap out the powder measure die, and you've got the same effect.

    For my AR15 3Gun and practice loads I have 2 tool heads for my 550B for loading .223/5.56. One is set up with just a sizing die, the other has the PM and seating dies. I case prep in a separate operation allowing me to; get the lube off in a vibratory cleaner, then trim using a Trimmit2 in a drill press. I then swap the tool heads and load. I use TAC or H335 as the extruded powders won't work well in the Dillon measures due to bridging etc.

    I load .223 using extruded powders for my coyote loads (AR15) and my precision bolt gun loads. Quantity is way less and I use a Harrell's measure .1 short and trickle to finish.
    Yes, I could certainly do it that way. l would rather just get the primer feeder off and out of the way. I have quick change kits for all my pistols. 95% of what I load is 9mm pistol and 6mm Creedmoore (single stage).

    The BL 550 is pretty cheap. Probably going to order onE and just set up my tool heads for .556 and 300 BLK.

    Thanks for the info.

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