State Law vs US Constitution

State Law vs US Constitution

This is a discussion on State Law vs US Constitution within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Article IV, Section 2. The Citizens of each state shall be entitled to all the Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several states. Numerous ...

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    VIP Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
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    State Law vs US Constitution

    Article IV, Section 2. The Citizens of each state shall be entitled to all the Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several states.
    Numerous states issue concealed carry permits but do not issue non resident carry permits, some states allow concealed carry without a permit by residents only. Additionally quite a few of the states which do not issue non resident permits also do not have reciprocity with any other state.

    Does anyone know if there has ever been a lawsuit filed using this article as justification to repeal these laws?
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    Ex Member Array Doogie's Avatar
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    Each state would have to have it's specific law challenged as to it's constitutionality. Don't expect that to happen any time soon as CHL citizens are in the minority.
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    Very interesting argument. I have not seen such a challenge. Someone with very deep pockets will be needed. There would be some obvious problems such as the individual sovereignty of each separate state but it would make interesting reading.
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    VIP Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farsidefan1 View Post
    Very interesting argument. I have not seen such a challenge. Someone with very deep pockets will be needed. There would be some obvious problems such as the individual sovereignty of each separate state but it would make interesting reading.
    I'm not sure why state sovereignty would be an issue as this clearly states all citizens must be treated the same whether they are residents of the state or not. Additionally in Section 1 of the same Article the Federal government is authorized to dictate how states are to recognize each others laws, records, and so forth.
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    Elected President Trump has recently stated he definately will pass National Reciprocity for permits to be recognized like drivers' licenses.
    He stated driving is only a privilege, but bearing arms is a right that cannot be infringed upon for any reason, so is quite adamant that he will ensure citizens with a permit (or ID from a Constitutional Carry State) will be able to CC in any state or D.C..
    Recognition will NOT be optional by any State or municipality.
    Folks from free States will be able to legally carry in any jurisdiction in the U.S. The bill is already waiting for him to sign.
    Freedoms will be returning when he negates BO's executive orders (which he has stated we will certainly do in a hurry).
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    VIP Member Array CWOUSCG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patri0t View Post
    Elected President Trump has recently stated he definately will pass National Reciprocity for permits to be recognized like drivers' licenses.
    He stated driving is only a privilege, but bearing arms is a right that cannot be infringed upon for any reason, so is quite adamant that he will ensure citizens with a permit (or ID from a Constitutional Carry State) will be able to CC in any state or D.C..
    Recognition will NOT be optional by any State or municipality.
    Folks from free States will be able to legally carry in any jurisdiction in the U.S. The bill is already waiting for him to sign.
    Freedoms will be returning when he negates BO's executive orders (which he has stated we will certainly do in a hurry).
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWOUSCG View Post
    Numerous states issue concealed carry permits but do not issue non resident carry permits, some states allow concealed carry without a permit by residents only. Additionally quite a few of the states which do not issue non resident permits also do not have reciprocity with any other state.

    Does anyone know if there has ever been a lawsuit filed using this article as justification to repeal these laws?
    I believe the 14th Amendment effects Article IV, Section 2, Clause 1 of the US Constitution. Clause 3 was changed by the 13th Amendment but does not apply to your question.

    Before the Fourteenth Amendment, there was only a citizen of a State and a citizen of the United States. One born in a State of the Union, was, in general, a citizen of that particular State. As such he or she was entitled to the special privileges and immunities of that particular State, and was entitled to the common privileges and immunities of citizens of another State in which he or she was in, and had fundamental privileges and immunities recognized under Article IV, Section 2, Clause 1.

    What the Fourteenth Amendment did was to transfer the privileges and immunities of a citizen of the United States from Article IV, Section 2, Clause 1 (“privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States”) of the Constitution to Section 1, Clause 2 of the Fourteenth Amendment (“privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States”). So a citizen of a State, under Article IV, Section 2, Clause 1 remained.

    FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT, SECTION 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    The Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1 is one of the most litigated parts of the constitution. It has been the basis for everything from Roe v. Wade (abortion) to Obergefell v. Hodges (same sex marriage).

    The Fourteenth Amendment can limit the actions of all state and local officials. Because the 14th amendment applies to all citizens of the US, It might be used in part for a National Reciprocity law.

    The Tenth Amendment is what allows for states to retain its sovereignty.

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT -

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-CO...1992-10-15.pdf
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    Distinguished Member Array The Old Anglo's Avatar
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    This is America AND The Constitution AND the Bill Of Rights will Always be the Law of the Land here. All those who disagree,Leave Now!.
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    As @SIGP250 notes, the Fourteenth is ripe for more litigation, and given the time it takes a statute to mature and be subjected to litigation and thus ultimately appealed to the SCOTUS, we might have a couple of new, young justices on the SCOTUS. That is a happy thought, eh?
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    Ex Member Array Dougb's Avatar
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    The Bill Of Rights originally only applied to the feds. States could be different. States rights thing, needed to get a Constitution passed at the time. States were more important than the feds, in the eyes of the signers. They had a great fear of an all powerful federal govt forcing everybody to be the same, like the king had tried to do.

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    I think the Heller case probably comes closest to what you're looking for. I have met with individual lawyers who have spoken about taking up the very issue you point to in an effort to strike down any state laws the infringe on our 2nd amendment constitutional right. They need a case and a well-heeled client willing to take it all the way.
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    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PFranklin View Post
    I think the Heller case probably comes closest to what you're looking for. I have met with individual lawyers who have spoken about taking up the very issue you point to in an effort to strike down any state laws the infringe on our 2nd amendment constitutional right. They need a case and a well-heeled client willing to take it all the way.
    What a way to have your last name preserved for all eternity; by taking that case all the way and winning!
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    State Law vs US Constitution

    ~ It is unlawful for a State to form a law that would 'over ride' the Constitution.
    ~ The Fed's frown on laws that States form that negate Federal law.
    However these two things are not the same.

    "IF" we really followed the Constitution no State would be able to have any anti-gun law as they are all contrary to the 2nd Amendment IMHO. But then "they" have not asked me yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by CWOUSCG View Post
    Numerous states issue concealed carry permits but do not issue non resident carry permits, some states allow concealed carry without a permit by residents only. Additionally quite a few of the states which do not issue non resident permits also do not have reciprocity with any other state.

    Does anyone know if there has ever been a lawsuit filed using this article as justification to repeal these laws?
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    Ex Member Array Doogie's Avatar
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    Not to hijack this thread,...but can you imagine how this conversation would be going if HRC won last week?
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    Chief, this country & our constitution belong to us (not the other way around). The states (ALL) ratified the constitution (every damn word). The wording in the 2nd amendment is SO clear as to require no further opinions on its constitutional meaning (until centralized-government types turned our courts from "protectors" to "interpreters"). Ideally, the states MAKE legislation while the constitution is the benchmark against which that legislation is... measured. uhhh, AMEN.
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