Call for another assault weapons ban - Page 4

Call for another assault weapons ban

This is a discussion on Call for another assault weapons ban within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by cmdrdredd If they didnít make it out to be a death machine it would make a difference yes. People need real facts, ...

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Thread: Call for another assault weapons ban

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array TeflonDon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    If they didnít make it out to be a death machine it would make a difference yes. People need real facts, not talking points and scary labels.
    Maybe, but they are still going to point out the fact that it's no different than it's military cousins other than full auto capabilities. They're still going to tell the reader how many rounds of can fire per second, how many rounds it holds, how many people were killed, how many mass shootings it was used in, how many lives would be saved if it were banned, how it's a killing machine, how we do not need it, etc. Nothing we do or say is going to stop them from expressing this point of view. A lot of what they are saying pertaining to the similarities and fuction are facts. With all that being said, I just don't see how making a big deal over Assault Weapon vs Sporting Rifle is going to make a difference.

    Plus the Left, the media, legislators, SCOTUS, Judges, presidents, current laws on the books, laws that are being introduced, etc all refer to these type of rifles as Assault Weapons for well over two decades now. I just do not see this ever changing, and I kind of see it as a moot point at this point. Heck, even the NRA uses the same term when describing these type of weapons albeit in quotes, but they still use it. We use the term when I'm reference to the Left banning AR15s. Guess we have to agree to disagree on this one.
    Last edited by TeflonDon; February 18th, 2018 at 10:52 PM. Reason: Fix autocorrect typos
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  2. #47
    Distinguished Member Array CavemanBob's Avatar
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    Maybe it's time for me to go shopping for a new AR, my last one was lost when my boat capsized in a wind storm.
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  3. #48
    Ex Member Array TeflonDon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    Yes, I absolutely do believe that. And I am not willing to throw in the towel and give up on this. There are too many examples of how public debates like this have been turned around just by retaking control of the narrative.
    Well I respect your opinion JMF, and I almost never disagree with you. Guess there's a first time for everything.

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  5. #49
    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    We never had control of the narrative. Thatís the problem.

    Who are we? A bunch of pot bellied ignorant rednecks who have as many as 14 teeth, drive a 4X4, and arenít too smart.

    So the liberal media would have America think.

    As usual, they donít know who we really are. Nor do they wish to know. Far, far easier to portray us as Neanderthals in their political cartoons (with the obligatory NRA hat). Easy to demonize us.

    We can only react. A shooting happens, the world (including us, but the liberals wonít believe that) is horrified, and then the venom spews.

    Ban ARs! The NRA is a terrorist organization! Gun control now!

    The usual BS. And we can only react. We didnít see the shooting coming anymore than the liberals did.

    But they sure as hell blame us.
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  6. #50
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by multistage View Post
    We never had control of the narrative. Thatís the problem.

    Who are we? A bunch of pot bellied ignorant rednecks who have as many as 14 teeth, drive a 4X4, and arenít too smart.

    So the liberal media would have America think.

    As usual, they donít know who we really are. Nor do they wish to know. Far, far easier to portray us as Neanderthals in their political cartoons (with the obligatory NRA hat). Easy to demonize us.

    We can only react. A shooting happens, the world (including us, but the liberals wonít believe that) is horrified, and then the venom spews.

    Ban ARs! The NRA is a terrorist organization! Gun control now!

    The usual BS. And we can only react. We didnít see the shooting coming anymore than the liberals did.

    But they sure as hell blame us.
    I completely agree with you. The fact that we have never had control of the narrative doesn't mean we can't get control of it. Whether you like Trump or not, it is clear he got elected because he grabbed control of the narrative on multiple issues. There are ways to do it. I'm disappointed that the NRA and their surrogates in the legislature have not been more effective at doing that.
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  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    Yes, I absolutely do believe that. And I am not willing to throw in the towel and give up on this. There are too many examples of how public debates like this have been turned around just by retaking control of the narrative.
    Can you give a couple of examples?
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  8. #52
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockymonster View Post
    Can you give a couple of examples?
    Thanks! I was hoping someone would ask. Let's look at the immigration debate. Objectively, it is a simple thing. The fact is, we are talking about "illegal aliens." That is the accurate, legal term. They are people who have criminally infiltrated the US. If that was the term universally used, conservatives would have all the traction in that debate.

    But look at what liberals have done to take control. They first moved the term to "undocumented immigrants" and "refugees," both of which are factually incorrect, but more popularly palatable. Then they moved the terms to "dreamers" and "aspiring Americans," which tugs at a lot of people's heartstrings. What liberals want for them is "amnesty." But that has too much of a criminal connotation to it, so they talk about it as "legalization."

    Despite being the minority party in all branches of government, they have gotten enough traction on the issue that the majority is offering them huge concessions to that agenda to get what it wants on immigration, like the wall and better enforcement, and the minority is turning the offer down, holding out for a better deal. The minority has no cards to play, but they have taken control. They even have conservatives using their terminology.

    Another example is the deficit. Objectively, the largest, fastest increase in the deficit in any presidential term was during the the last administration. But now, the new administration owns it and the minority wants to make political hay off of it. They hired a communications firm, Hathaway Communications, to help them spin it. The advice they got, and took, was to stop talking about "raising the debt ceiling." That is the objectively correct term, but it sounds too much like raising the limit on your credit card, which everyone can relate to. So now they talk about "defaulting on the national debt."

    Now having a big deficit is not a good thing. It will lead to runaway inflation. But technically, it is not possible for the US to actually default on the debt. No creditor can go to court seeking to take possession of a couple of states, or all the trucks in the Army, to pay off the account. But by taking control of the term being used, even though it is not correct, they are getting leverage on the debate. They also use a trope of "forcing our children to pay off our debt." That is not factually correct either, but I don't want to get into all the reasons why. You get the picture.

    So back to ARs and AKs. By allowing the left to call them "assault rifles," they demonize them, even though the term is incorrect. For us, assault rifles are full auto. To the general public, they are rifles used to assault people. Now they are using "rapid fire rifles" which is a completely misleading term. A double-barrel shotgun is rapid fire...for two rounds. They also demonize the AR-15, even though no actual branded ARs have been used in a mass shooting to my knowledge. They have all been knock-offs. They also say AR stands for "Assault Rifle," even though they know better. It is not ignorance that prompts them to do that. It is intentional, and it works.

    So we need a benign term for these rifles and we need a campaign to sell that term. The NRA should be taking the lead on this, but disappointingly, they are not.
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  9. #53
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    A lot of people have posted what an assault rifle is. It turns out that there is a distinction between assault weapon and assault rifle. An assault rifle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle) refers to a rifle that meets 4 criteria (i.e. select fire, detachable mag, etc) while an assault weapon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon) includes semi-automatic and full-automatic and the 3-round burst weapons, both pistol and rifle. Whatever reference is used, there will be someone that'll put a "spin" on this in order to justify their position (pro-gun or anti-gun). The bottom line is that the 2A should prevail over all this stuff.

  10. #54
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NECCdude View Post
    The bottom line is that the 2A should prevail over all this stuff.
    You are absolutely right, it should. But it doesn't and it won't. The "Infringement Train" left the station a long time ago and it ain't comin' back. Just like the founding fathers had to literally fight for our rights, we will have to continue to fight for them in the political and social arena, battle by battle.
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  11. #55
    VIP Member Array Gabill's Avatar
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    Did you really thing that the gun ban thing wouldn't come back after the shooting? This is the time for them to make there case.
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  12. #56
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabill View Post
    Did you really thing that the gun ban thing wouldn't come back after the shooting? This is the time for them to make there case.
    Yeah, even though a ban won't work. It looks like cooler heads are prevailing. There is a bipartisan bill to strengthen the NICS system. I hate NICS, but strengthening it is better than a ban.
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  14. #58
    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Now THAT's what I call "gun violence." Attacking a gun.
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  15. #59
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    That takes stupid to a whole new level.
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    I've been looking for an excuse to buy another black rifle. Maybe I should thank the RINOs?
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