Wisconsin: Gun in glove compartment violated concealed carry law

Wisconsin: Gun in glove compartment violated concealed carry law

This is a discussion on Wisconsin: Gun in glove compartment violated concealed carry law within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Court: Gun in glove compartment violated concealed carry law As per the court ruling, even though the law on transporting guns in vehicles clearly states ...

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Thread: Wisconsin: Gun in glove compartment violated concealed carry law

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    Senior Member Array Psycho41's Avatar
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    Wisconsin: Gun in glove compartment violated concealed carry law

    Court: Gun in glove compartment violated concealed carry law

    As per the court ruling, even though the law on transporting guns in vehicles clearly states that a person may transport a loaded gun the state can assert that the law for CC also applies - even though there is no mention of CC requirements in the vehicle transportation laws.

    Here is an excerpt from the Wisconsin law
    167.31  Safe use and transportation of firearms and bows.

    (2) Prohibitions; motorboats and vehicles; highways and roadways.
    (b) Except as provided in sub. (4), no person may place, possess, or transport a firearm, bow, or crossbow in or on a vehicle, unless one of the following applies:
    1. The firearm is unloaded or is a handgun.
    2. The bow does not have an arrow nocked.
    3. The crossbow is not cocked or is unloaded and enclosed in a carrying case.
    If the ruling stands, the logical conclusion would be that ALL of the laws regarding transportation of firearms requires a person to have a concealed carry permit. I.e. a person must have a permit to transport any firearm.
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    The rationale cited makes no sense. The transport law makes no mention of the necessity of a concealed carry license, yet this:

    "The Supreme Court ruled 6-1 Tuesday that the statutes aren’t in conflict because a person can satisfy both laws by simply obtaining a concealed carry permit."

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    Ex Member Array CG11's Avatar
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    These anti gun judges are grasping at every straw they can find to persecute gun owners. The ruling is illogical and vindictive.

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    I think that a lot of gun laws need to be reviewed for common sense and effectiveness. Get rid of the laws that don't make sense or aren't effective. Then the rest of them need to be re-organized to make them less confusing. Actually, I think that laws against murder and assault are all that are really needed.
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    In PA a loaded handgun in a vehicle is considered concealed. You either need a CCW or have the gun unloaded with the gun and ammo stored in separate locations.
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    Loaded gun in the glove box/console is legal in FL, with or without a permit. Those WI judges are not worthy of making judicial decisions.
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    Senior Member Array Psycho41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post
    In PA a loaded handgun in a vehicle is considered concealed. You either need a CCW or have the gun unloaded with the gun and ammo stored in separate locations.
    And the Pennsylvania law on that is clear. While someone may argue the law is "good" or not is one thing, but no one can say the law is not understood
    Under §6106, “any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.”
    The problem is that in Wisconsin, the law governing transportation of firearms is very extensive, stating what is or is not allowed, exceptions, etc. However, there is no mention that any of the allowed activities also require a CC permit. The above Penn law makes it plainly obvious that a loaded firearm in a vehicle does require a permit.

    Just found this: In a document provided by the Wisconsin Department of Justice updated in January of this year:

    If I have a CCW license can I transport the weapon on my person in a vehicle?
    Concealed carry license holders may carry a loaded, concealed handgun in a vehicle. Note,
    however, that rifles and shotguns have different legal requirements. Although 2011 WI Act 51
    removed the requirement that rifles and shotguns be “encased,” it is still illegal to conceal a longgun
    in a vehicle. Case law has established that a firearm within reach on a seat is concealed.
    Rifles and shotguns in a vehicle must be unloaded, and must be readily visible from outside the
    vehicle or be out of reach of the driver and passengers.

    If I do not have a CCW license how do I transport weapons in a vehicle?

    A. Handguns
    The law now allows a person who can legally possess a handgun to do the following
    without a CCW permit:

    place, possess, or transport a handgun in a vehicle without being unloaded or
    encased.
    Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(b).
    • load a handgun in a vehicle. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(c).
    • operate an all-terrain vehicle (ATV) with a loaded uncased handgun in the
    operator‘s possession. Wis. Stat. § 23.33(3)(a).
    • place, possess, or transport a handgun in or on a motorboat with the motor
    running without being unloaded or encased. Wis. Stats. § 167.31(2)(a), (b), (c).
    • place, possess, or transport a loaded uncased handgun in or on a
    noncommercial aircraft.

    IMPORTANT NOTE: Persons who do not have a CCW license may still not carry
    weapons concealed. In a vehicle this means that the firearm cannot be hidden or
    concealed and within reach.
    I'm guessing the last "note" was added recently specifically due to this case. In the first response even a firearm that is plainly visible (on the seat) is apparently considered 'concealed'. But, the following response states that a non CC person may transport an unconcealed, loaded handgun. So, if "on the seat" is considered concealed - what is unconcealed? It specifically states a person may "posses" the gun (i.e. have access to it) - so requiring that it is inaccessible it contradictory.

    Don't get me wrong. If WI wants to have a law stating that non CC citizens may not have loaded handguns accessible in the car, that's their prerogative. But, to state they may "posses" loaded guns while transporting them in a vehicle, but making any attempt to do so a crime is just wrong.
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    Senior Member Array CreedDryrot's Avatar
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    The last part of the Note is the important one: In a vehicle this means that the firearm cannot be hidden or concealed and within reach.

    I posses many things. Not all of them are within my current reach. That's the crux of it. It can't be within reach. Driving down the highway, a loaded pistol in your trunk is still in your possession, but it's not within reach.

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    Ex Member Array Doogie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boatman37 View Post
    In PA a loaded handgun in a vehicle is considered concealed. You either need a CCW or have the gun unloaded with the gun and ammo stored in separate locations.
    Same in Ohio

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    Senior Member Array Psycho41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CreedDryrot View Post
    The last part of the Note is the important one: In a vehicle this means that the firearm cannot be hidden or concealed and within reach.

    I posses many things. Not all of them are within my current reach. That's the crux of it. It can't be within reach. Driving down the highway, a loaded pistol in your trunk is still in your possession, but it's not within reach.
    The document was last updated Jan 2018. I would guess that note was added then because of this court case.

    But, let's assume that the "note" is correct. If so, how does bullet #2 apply?
    • load a handgun in a vehicle.
    As per their own document, it is legal for a non-CC person to load a handgun in a vehicle. How can a person load it if the only legal way for such a person to "possess" said gun is for it to be inaccessible to the person? If I can't "possess" the handgun (i.e. have it in my hands) then I can't load it. But, they say I can legally load it. What? It is completely contradictory. So I ask again. If a non CC person may legally possess (and load) a handgun in a vehicle, what is considered not concealed? They state that an exposed gun on a seat is considered "concealed".

    Again, as I stated before, if the people in that state want to prohibit non CC individuals from having loaded handguns in their possession (i.e. reach), that is up to their citizens. However, their law should make that apparent. It seems they are going out of their way to say that it is legal, but come up reasons with why it is not legal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CG11 View Post
    These anti gun judges are grasping at every straw they can find to persecute gun owners. The ruling is illogical and vindictive.
    What ? Judges issuing legally-binding opinions (rulings) that are illogical and vindictive ???

    Say it ain't so !
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    still needs more clarity

    Not sure if I’m more frustrated about the confusing laws or the fact there are so many of them. In regards to long guns it is very confusing. There are many nice carbines that in my opinion would be nice to have near my person at certain times regardless of my reason yet I’m afraid just to transport them even just to the range. For instance I have a folding carbine it fits great in my range bag with my handguns. So is it legal to throw that in the bag? Or because its a long gun am I supposed to actually leave it out in plain sight uncased and unprotected. Who wants to leave a rifle uncased in humid or rainy or snowy cold condensating weather. I just don’t understand the restrictive & confusing long gun rules in WI. The information online all state the same confusing laws.

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    As a PA gun owner I can say the state firearms laws are clear. Loaded gun in the vehicle requires a license to carry firearms. It makes sense because no one can see the gun except inside the car. PA is a shall issue state in which Open Carry is an absolute right without permit except in Philly where you have to have a LTCF to open carry. They was political power in action. Unfair, unreasonable but a fact so it there is no guesswork involved.

    As for the WI decision it is a classic travesty of justice. Requiring the average purpose to navigate the interaction of two lass and consequently understand he needs a permit have a gun in his car even though one law permits it and another does not is just injustice. A gun owner is going to look at gun laws not transportation laws. The court had ir head you know where.

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    Remember that a judge is just a lawyer in fancy clothing with more power. Lawyers only thrive by making everything maximally complicated, otherwise we’d need near no lawyers (what a nice thought).
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    Member Array Nifty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Loaded gun in the glove box/console is legal in FL, with or without a permit. Those WI judges are not worthy of making judicial decisions.
    I need to find out. I have mine between the seat and center console when driving. Do you know right off hand if that is allowed? (Im in Florida)

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