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Open carry to make a point?

7K views 161 replies 35 participants last post by  Pistology 
#1 ·
I understand what this group (Florida Carry) is trying to do, but I don't think they are going about it the right way. I don't particularly like that, in an effort to make a constitutional statement, they put law enforcement in a compromised position. I'm glad the situation ended as it did.

Florida Carry while fishing on a public pier
 
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#3 ·
Amen brother. People seem to think, including many in law enforcement, that their opinions are the quivalent of LAW. They are no such thing, and that goes for my opinions too. Unfortunately, the only opinions about law that matter are those rendered by unaccountable lawyers in fancy black robes.
 
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#6 ·
I don't know that I've ever seen an open carry video filmed by an open carrier that achieved the desired result, whether the intent was to educate, inform, normalize open carry in the public arena, etc. My opinion is that open carry done legally or otherwise only serves to turn public opinion against guns and the second amendment in general.
 
#7 ·
Interesting, didn't such a movement get the law changed in Texas not too long ago? Perhaps I am misremembering?
 
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#17 ·
So, let me get this straight. Open carry should not be done even though it is a right because that will get open carry banned which you don't do anyway because you fear it will get banned. If you don't anyway why would you care if it gets banned?
Open Carry should be done whenever and where ever it is legal, and as desired by the responsible gun owner.

But those who choose to open carry should do so in a discerning manner. If one wants to make a statement about their right to do so (for the purpose of advancing the right), they can choose more impactful methods than setting up a confrontation to be shared on YouTube.

If harrassment is prevalent in one's jurisdiction, make a YouTube about it. Post it on Facebook. Write a letter to the editor, and letters to the LE agencies in the area. Appeal to your elected representatives. But be an adult about it, and a credit to the advancement of the RKBA.
 
#16 ·
I have no problem with open carrying where legal. But open carrying to deliberately provoke a confrontation with the police is not smart, in my opinion.
 
#25 ·
Check the past cases by Florida Carry and Open Carry here in Florida. They did the same in Tampa and won a lawsuit against the Tampa Police for disarming a citizen fishing. "A right not exercised is a right lost". Many counties in Florida continue to ignore the law about gun rights. Janet Reno came up with the Open Carry ban back in the 1980's. Open Carry has been fighting it ever since. This group announces it is coming well before hand. So the illegal reaction by Miami PD needs some litigation.
 
#19 ·
It seems like LE should be well aware of the Florida laws on this by now and responded more appropriately. It's legal to OC while fishing, and complying with the law doesn't put law enforcement in a compromised position; police department policy and officer over reaction put LE in a compromised position.

Some Miami person called the cops, and the cops should simply have said it's legal, have a nice day. But no, the anti-OC police chief sets a tone in Miami that cops will follow, and they apparently arrested an OC'er who was within the law. So now the person who was subject to unlawful arrest can pursue legal action against Miami, and I hope they do.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk
 
#21 ·
It's natural to second guess law enforcement, especially when we don't have all the details. Ideally, perhaps LE would have observed with binoculars from a distance the actions of the "fishermen" before moving in?

Any law enforcement here want to offer insight into how they are trained to respond to a call of MWAG (or men with guns)? I'm pretty sure it's not to tell the caller, "It's okay, it's legal here." :Breakdance:
 
#26 ·
"For his part, New Smyrna Beach resident and Florida Carry executive director Sean Caranna forwarded to the Miami Herald a letter from Lighthouse Point's Christopher Philpot to Oates that says "on June 24, 2018 a few friends and I will be open carrying holstered handguns while fishing off of South Pointe Pier in Miami Beach."

The letter, dated June 7, quotes Florida Statute 790.25(3)(h), which allows a person hunting, camping or fishing to openly carry a gun, and states he's writing Oates because "I’m sure there will be citizens that do not know the law. They may contact law enforcement when they see someone open carrying a holstered handgun."

790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.—
(1) DECLARATION OF POLICY.—The Legislature finds as a matter of public policy and fact that it is necessary to promote firearms safety and to curb and prevent the use of firearms and other weapons in crime and by incompetent persons without prohibiting the lawful use in defense of life, home, and property, and the use by United States or state military organizations, and as otherwise now authorized by law, including the right to use and own firearms for target practice and marksmanship on target practice ranges or other lawful places, and lawful hunting and other lawful purposes.

(3) LAWFUL USES.—The provisions of ss. 790.053 and 790.06 do not apply in the following instances, and, despite such sections, it is lawful for the following persons to own, possess, and lawfully use firearms and other weapons, ammunition, and supplies for lawful purposes:
(h) A person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition;


Ok so should the Miami Police Department already know this?


How would you feel if you were going to the range and you were detained at gunpoint, handcuffed and had your bags searched because someone called a MWAG to the police?
 
#27 ·
It amazes me how anti-open carry many people are who conceal carry. Open carry should be available throughout America under the Second Amendment. When I was a kid, open carry was for upright citizens and concealed carry was by ne'er-do-wells up to no good. All gun owners should support all other gun owners no matter what or how they carry.
 
#35 ·
I agree. I like that my state allows both open and concealed carry. I carry somewhere in between the two (usually in an OWB holster with a cover garment). The gun isn't out in the open, but it isn't concealed so deeply that I have to undress to get to it. I don't worry if it prints a bit or if the shirt rides up over the bottom of the holster when I'm reaching for a can on the top shelf in the grocery store. Most people never notice. I've never had anyone say anything about it.
 
#29 ·
Would screaming, waving signs, blocking traffic, etc. be a better means of making their point? Maybe burn a few police cars and take down famous statues.

I think I'll settle for a nice day of fishing.
 
#33 ·
THE BACK STORY OF THIS INCIDENT:


"In 1987 Florida became a "Shall-Issue" state for concealed carry licenses.

....

To ensure that gun owners would not be met with thousands of differing local regulations, the state legislature also passed preemption of all firearms laws. Amongst the ordinances invalidated was Dade County (JANET RENO'S) ban on openly carrying an unconcealed handgun.

Janet Reno, State Attorney for Dade County at the time, called on the legislature to close what she called a loophole in the new statewide carry laws and outright ban Open Carry throughout the state. Having just lost their fight against Shall-Issue concealed carry, the future US Attorney General, a handful of Florida Sheriffs and Police Chiefs, and newspapers statewide went on the offensive to call for a special session of the legislature to close what they dubbed the "Dodge City Loophole"�.

NRA lobbyist Marion Hammer initially fought the open carry ban, explaining that allowing state wide open carry was not a loophole but a carefully planned and considered provision of the carry laws. NRA then announced that they would not fight the open carry ban at that time but pick up the issue during the next regular legislative session. The reason given was to delay implementation of open carry provisions while people became accustomed to concealed carry. While in special session over an unrelated tax matter, the legislature added the open carry ban to the agenda and quickly passed the measure.

30 years later, the Open Carry Ban that Janet Reno so skillfully lobbied for still stands in Florida. "
 
#39 ·
BTW in 1988 there were 32,814 CWPs in Florida. in 2017 there were 1,784,395...........guess it's not "Dodge City"


1.2 million were added since Obama took office in 2008...............Thanks Barry!! :wave:
 
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#43 ·
Please remember that in FL until recently ANY minor and accidental showing of a pistol because your cover garment rode up, slipped, etc. could result in your being body-slammed to the ground by a Peace Officer and arrested. Don't think it happened to 50+ year old law-abiding citizens of FL? Use google and see. Again, the 2A says "shall not be infringed". It doesn't say "officer discretion" or even "judicial discretion" or G*f forbid elected DA decision - it says "shall not be infringed".
 
#48 ·
Please remember that in FL until recently ANY minor and accidental showing of a pistol because your cover garment rode up, slipped, etc. could result in your being body-slammed to the ground by a Peace Officer and arrested. Don't think it happened to 50+ year old law-abiding citizens of FL? Use google and see. Again, the 2A says "shall not be infringed". It doesn't say "officer discretion" or even "judicial discretion" or G*f forbid elected DA decision - it says "shall not be infringed".
Don't leave out the point that particular LEO was discharged shortly thereafter.
 
#47 ·
We can hide our rights and not want "the hassle" of dealing with the police but how does that help our rights by hiding them from everybody? We fear open carry because of a MWAG call. So they have literally taken those rights already with just a phone call. Now we can start living in fear of "Red flag" laws. Maybe we should quit sites like this so we are not associated with "gun people"? Where does this fear activated compliance end?
 
#55 ·
This guy is how you handle that type of situation. 100% cool, calm, in control. This guys a real cop.

 
#58 ·
It seems like a majority of gun owners are ready to throw open carriers under the bus for showing an evil gun instead of hiding it. I grew up around people open carrying in the 1940s and 1950s. I have and do open carry on occasion. I even open carried in California in the early 1960s when I was a teenager.
 
#63 ·
Many shotgun hunters and clay shooters don't support the NRA or other Second Amendment organizations because the gun grabbers are not after their shotguns. Many rifle hunters and target shooters don't support the organizations because the gun grabbers are not after their hunting or target rifles. Many gun owners are willing to give up black rifles because they see no need for them. Many younger conceal handgun carriers were taught C.A.N.T. (Carry Always, Never Tell) by their instructor so they don't support open carry. Many J-frame revolver carriers don't see why anyone needs a high capacity semi-auto handgun.

I hate to break it to people. The liberal gun grabbers want each and every gun of any kind in private hands confiscated and destroyed. If every gun owner supported all guns and all uses through the NRA and other Second Amendment organizations, we would never have to worry about loosing our rights. Every time we appease or compromise with the gun grabbers, we loose something and they just want more and will never give up.
 
#64 ·
It is a sad and disgraceful truth but as long as the majority of our population allow themselves and our children to be conditioned to government control they will fail to achieve full adulthood with the ability to think for themselves. JMO
 
#72 ·
I only expect law enforcement officers to do 2 things. Enforce actual laws, and take seriously any oath they took to protect and uphold the Constitution. Doesn't look like in this case they did either. Support from law enforcement is dwindling across the country. Generally folks in the gun owning community have been staunch supporters. Maybe law enforcement should be mindful of that and show some love back.
 
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