Expansion of Red Flag laws will lead to abuses.

Expansion of Red Flag laws will lead to abuses.

This is a discussion on Expansion of Red Flag laws will lead to abuses. within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; California is approving the expansion of its red flag law so that coworkers, and schools can have your guns seized. This is ripe for abuse! ...

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Thread: Expansion of Red Flag laws will lead to abuses.

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    Senior Member Array OneGunTX's Avatar
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    Expansion of Red Flag laws will lead to abuses.

    California is approving the expansion of its red flag law so that coworkers, and schools can have your guns seized. This is ripe for abuse!

    California bill to expand gun-takeaway law advances to governor's desk | Fox News

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    Senior Member Array lordofwyr's Avatar
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    Any gun owners still living in Kommmifornia should get out while they can.

    That said, STOP MOVING TO TEXAS AND VOTING FOR THE SAME TYPE OF DEMOCRATIC IDIOTS THAT RUINED KOMMIFORNIA!!!!!

    I'm serious. Austin has become East San Fransico and our city and county elected offices are becoming rife with Kommifornia style leftists, open communists/socialists, and just plain anti-gun goon squads........
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    Member Array frgood's Avatar
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    The logic in the statements quoted in the article is dangerous to the extreme. It is the very definition of fearmongering.

    Fearmongering or scaremongering is the spreading of frightening and exaggerated rumors of an impending danger or the habit or tactic of purposely and needlessly arousing public fear about an issu
    e

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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frgood View Post
    The logic in the statements quoted in the article is dangerous to the extreme. It is the very definition of fearmongering.
    What specifically in the article is a "rumor" or "exaggerated" per your definition? Red flag laws create unreasonable searches and seizures that violate the 4th Amendment. The actions are unreasonable because they can be taken without the subject having done anything, being diagnosed with a mental disorder by a professional or getting the chance to defend himself in court before the actions are taken.

    These laws are being abused, as in the very first use of Florida's red flag law. Also, who can doubt the gun grabbing propensity of the CA legislature and court system?
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    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofwyr View Post
    Any gun owners still living in Kommmifornia should get out while they can.

    That said, STOP MOVING TO TEXAS AND VOTING FOR THE SAME TYPE OF DEMOCRATIC IDIOTS THAT RUINED KOMMIFORNIA!!!!!

    I'm serious. Austin has become East San Fransico and our city and county elected offices are becoming rife with Kommifornia style leftists, open communists/socialists, and just plain anti-gun goon squads........
    Austin has been like that for decades.
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    Member Array gnius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneGunTX View Post
    California is approving the expansion of its red flag law so that coworkers, and schools can have your guns seized. This is ripe for abuse!

    California bill to expand gun-takeaway law advances to governor's desk | Fox News

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    This is DESIGNED to be abused. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

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    Ex Member Array CG11's Avatar
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    They will never keep squeezing - know that and remember it come Election Day.

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    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    It's just common sense. Who knows you better than your co-workers and child's teacher? They should probably get ahead of the game and extend this to ex spouses and neighbors. Those people always have the common good a heart.
    Psalm 144:1

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    Senior Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    So, now every time someone is fired or layed off, the employer will be able to report them as a possible danger and have have their guns seized.

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    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    “If you can just stop people at that point where they try to get a gun they can't become mass shooters," she said

    Did anyone else notice how well it worked with that video game shooter?
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    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    Or the Ft. Lauderdale guy on the no fly list who flew, with a gun...
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    Distinguished Member Array The Old Anglo's Avatar
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    Ahhh..Kommiefornia...Land of Granola,what ain`t Fruits and Nuts are Flakes!. Never going there!.
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    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnius View Post
    This is DESIGNED to be abused. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
    Bingo! The expansion can not lead to abuse if the concept of the law is already abuse.
    We get the government we deserve.

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    VIP Member Array jmf552's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gnius View Post
    This is DESIGNED to be abused. It's not a bug, it's a feature.
    Agreed. Some support for that is that the CA law only makes it a misdemeanor for someone to intentionally falsely accuse someone. So you fraudulently violate someone's 1A and 4A rights, with premeditated ill intent, you get their guns taken away and make them prohibited persons for getting any new guns and your jeopardy for that is a misdemeanor? Not to mention the fact that misdemeanor is going to be very difficult to prove and the CA cops would not make it any kind of priority to investigate.

    Another issue with these laws relates to something I read that said many local LE departments across the country barely have enough secure storage space for guns they have to retain as evidence in criminal trials. Red flag laws are likely to create significant additional expense for LE departments and increase the risk of guns being stolen.
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    Member Array frgood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmf552 View Post
    What specifically in the article is a "rumor" or "exaggerated" per your definition? Red flag laws create unreasonable searches and seizures that violate the 4th Amendment. The actions are unreasonable because they can be taken without the subject having done anything, being diagnosed with a mental disorder by a professional or getting the chance to defend himself in court before the actions are taken.

    These laws are being abused, as in the very first use of Florida's red flag law. Also, who can doubt the gun grabbing propensity of the CA legislature and court system?
    The article, itself, is not rumor and I should have been more clear. But the quoted portion, "... It would allow co-workers and school personnel to petition a court to temporarily remove guns from someone they believe poses a danger,", reads to me as a result of a 'state of fear' mindset. Those prone to knee-jerk fear responses would find this direction of legislation as comforting. This does not give a moments consideration to how this law would impact society in any real sense.

    I could name a few past co-workers and ex-girlfriends that would petition the Courts just out of spite or some perceived fear. On potential outcome is that anyone who knows I own a gun could make my life unnecessarily difficult and what position might the court take after the third person 'tattles' on me?

    Additionally, Ting, the bill sponsors' quote of "This is about getting guns out of the hands of the wrong people," seems to be a mantra decried with the intent to end the debate. However, if one is to consider human nature with even the remotest of consideration, would find Ting's mantra to be ineffectual at best and naive at worse.
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