Denver Trauma Surgeon: "This is our lane!" - Page 2

Denver Trauma Surgeon: "This is our lane!"

This is a discussion on Denver Trauma Surgeon: "This is our lane!" within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Every generation thinks they can solve the riddle of a conscious and dangerous beast. Meh . . ....

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Thread: Denver Trauma Surgeon: "This is our lane!"

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Doghandler's Avatar
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    Every generation thinks they can solve the riddle of a conscious and dangerous beast.

    Meh . . .
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    That was an ill-advised statement by the NRA, IMO. Too easy to eviscerate on rebuttal.
    Unless you've had a loved one nearly killed by a careless physician making a mistake prescribing two post-op medications that would have interacted and killed my dad. We only caught it because my wife was in the ICU and thought something wasn't right. She brought it to the attention of the nurse, ICU supervisor, and Supervisor of Nursing for the hospital.

    I am fairly certain that the doctor who responded claiming "that is our lane" might have been inebriated and doesn't really know whether she's in the right lane or the oncoming one - and probably doesn't care either way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Unless you've had a loved one nearly killed by a careless physician making a mistake prescribing two post-op medications that would have interacted and killed my dad. We only caught it because my wife was in the ICU and thought something wasn't right. She brought it to the attention of the nurse, ICU supervisor, and Supervisor of Nursing for the hospital.

    I am fairly certain that the doctor who responded claiming "that is our lane" might have been inebriated and doesn't really know whether she's in the right lane or the oncoming one - and probably doesn't care either way.
    Medical mistakes kill people. People with guns kill people. One reality doesn't invalidate the other.
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    OK, I am putting on my helmet and flack jacket on because I think I am about to undergo a barrage.

    The Docs’ opinions are based upon their professional mission. As stated in the web article they see part of their work as being trying to stop injuries from occurrring regardless of the method of injury. Now let’s be understanding of that fact. If doctors did not care about causes there would not be a polio vaccine and many other preventive medicines. So the Docs had every right to express their opinions and findings, just as we do and the NRA did.

    The problem here is the NRA once again used the tactic of inciting its base by rejecting the Docs paper and chastising them for butting into something the NRA decided was not the Docs business. There are those who believe that the way to deal with disagreement is to intimidate, isolate, denigarate, etc, just like th NRA does. My view and method are different. I gain nothing but an enemy if I reject them out of hand and tell them they do not know what they are talking about, and also that they have no business talking about it. The NRA’s polarization of gun foes only strengthens the foes. The Docs and the AMA are not going away. They have big bucks too. In fact if they team up with insurers who pay the bills for the surgeries and treatments from gun wounds they can crush the NRA. It is about time for the NRA to understand the process of dispute resolution and engage it it. If it ever does that, I will become a life memes instead of a non member.

    Ok, I am headed for the bunker.
    Sorry brother...you're gonna need the bunker. Even if everything you said is true, wouldn't it make sense to go after the biggie killers first?

    Number of deaths for leading causes of death in the United States (2017) from the CDC:

    Heart disease: 635,260.
    Cancer: 598,038.
    Accidents (unintentional injuries): 161,374.
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 154,596.
    Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 142,142.
    Alzheimer's disease: 116,103.
    Diabetes: 80,058.
    Influenza and pneumonia: 51,537.
    Here is the raw data (from 2016) if you have trouble sleeping:

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr67/nvsr67_06.pdf
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  6. #20
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    @OldChap ,

    Yes,, it makes perfect sense to go after the major killers of,out population, and that is exactly what has been going on for decades. My wife was given 5 years to live after her second breast cancer whe she was 40 years old. She had four more bouts of cancer until the last one in 2002. She died in 2016 from a stroke.

    We have been attacking all major diseases decades. Remember when AIDS was a death sentence? It is not so now. If you have an empirical evidence to sunstantiatd your position I would be gratified to see it so I could be educated better. You see I do not seek data to justify my leanings. I seek data to learn and adjust my leanings.

    More people are killed and injured in vehicular accidents ever year than by guns. If we take suicides out of the tally on gun deaths the death stays drop by ⅔. You are introducing bad apples to condemn bad oranges. They do not compare.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Medical mistakes kill people. People with guns kill people. One reality doesn't invalidate the other.
    That is true. Which one is statistically more likely to kill you?
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    That is true. Which one is statistically more likely to kill you?
    Me, personally, as a gun owner, carrier, and daily shooter who hasn't been hospitalized since 1963?

    Statistics tell us whatever we want them to tell us.
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  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    @OldChap ,

    Yes,, it makes perfect sense to go after the major killers of,out population, and that is exactly what has been going on for decades. My wife was given 5 years to live after her second breast cancer whe she was 40 years old. She had four more bouts of cancer until the last one in 2002. She died in 2016 from a stroke.

    We have been attacking all major diseases decades. Remember when AIDS was a death sentence? It is not so now. If you have an empirical evidence to sunstantiatd your position I would be gratified to see it so I could be educated better. You see I do not seek data to justify my leanings. I seek data to learn and adjust my leanings.

    More people are killed and injured in vehicular accidents ever year than by guns. If we take suicides out of the tally on gun deaths the death stays drop by ⅔. You are introducing bad apples to condemn bad oranges. They do not compare.
    You need to take some ride alongs with your police officers for a few weekends and see what actually kills a LOT of people. I hardly hear a peep out of the AMA about one of the major reasons for a huge number of deaths in the U.S. each year: drunken people. Driving, swimming, hot tubs, bathtubs, fights, drinking themselves to death, putting babies in microwaves after a bath, mowing the lawn, the list of ways people kill themselves, others, and even their own children when under the influence is almost endless. And I won't even drop another biggie: "recreational" drugs.

    Empirical evidence? You can see for yourself if you take my advice and ride along with the folks who have to actually deal with all the carnage. And your last sentence proves my point. Is it your contention that guns are a major cause of death in the U.S.?

    I don't need anything to justify my leanings - a clear head will work just fine. I cannot count the number of times I leaned inside a crumpled car that reeked of alcohol and looked into the dead faces of little kids crushed in the back seat. You just have to be out and about with a strong stomach. Take some Carmex to put under your nostrils.
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  10. #24
    VIP Member Array OldChap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Me, personally, as a gun owner, carrier, and daily shooter who hasn't been hospitalized since 1963?

    Statistics tell us whatever we want them to tell us.
    It generally isn't your gun you have to worry about. On the other hand, I don't need statistics to tell me that the chances of my death from heart disease or getting hit by a drunk driver are quite a bit higher than being shot in a gunfight. I've been there, done that. You can ignore inferences drawn from facts at your own peril.
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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    OK, I am putting on my helmet and flack jacket on because I think I am about to undergo a barrage.

    Ok, I am headed for the bunker.
    Double up on the jackets and dig that bunker deep.

    You'll note the Docs went after the cause of polio, not those infected with it (the symptoms). The cause of "gun violence" is not the guns--it's the idiots doing the shooting.

    Man, I haven't posted "idiots" here since I got points last time. I'd better go check my point balance.
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  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    It generally isn't your gun you have to worry about. On the other hand, I don't need statistics to tell me that the chances of my death from heart disease or getting hit by a drunk driver are quite a bit higher than being shot in a gunfight. I've been there, done that. You can ignore inferences drawn from facts at your own peril.
    You are moving the goal posts here. There are many things more likely to kill me than gunfire, I'm simply not sure that medical mistake/malpractice is one of them.
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  13. #27
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    @OldChap ,

    You refer to carnage as a justification. So do the Doctors. I have seen carnage in war and a civilian news photographer. I understand carnage from the perspective.tive of a witness. But this is not about carnage. It is about reducing carnage. The Docs want to reduce it. I and many here want to reduce it too. But we will never do that without a meeiting of the minds.

    The old notion that things get better when people engage in common sense and fair dealing guides my life.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    OK, I am putting on my helmet and flack jacket on because I think I am about to undergo a barrage.

    The Docs’ opinions are based upon their professional mission. As stated in the web article they see part of their work as being trying to stop injuries from occurrring regardless of the method of injury. Now let’s be understanding of that fact. If doctors did not care about causes there would not be a polio vaccine and many other preventive medicines. So the Docs had every right to express their opinions and findings, just as we do and the NRA did.

    The problem here is the NRA once again used the tactic of inciting its base by rejecting the Docs paper and chastising them for butting into something the NRA decided was not the Docs business. There are those who believe that the way to deal with disagreement is to intimidate, isolate, denigarate, etc, just like th NRA does. My view and method are different. I gain nothing but an enemy if I reject them out of hand and tell them they do not know what they are talking about, and also that they have no business talking about it. The NRA’s polarization of gun foes only strengthens the foes. The Docs and the AMA are not going away. They have big bucks too. In fact if they team up with insurers who pay the bills for the surgeries and treatments from gun wounds they can crush the NRA. It is about time for the NRA to understand the process of dispute resolution and engage it it. If it ever does that, I will become a life memes instead of a non member.

    Ok, I am headed for the bunker.
    One phrase comes to mind: Physician heal thyself.

    Hmmm. Over-medication. Procedural errors. Knuckling under to MBAs and actuarials on how to practice. All of which leads to permanent damage and death on a huge scale. But wait! Lets point to the speck in someone else's eye.......
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  15. #29
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    We can look at statistics until we are blue in the face. It won't change the fact that the docs are blaming an inanimate object for something done by human decision. The shooters are the problem, not the weapons.

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    msgt/ret, OldVet and svgheartland like this.

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