Denver Trauma Surgeon: "This is our lane!" - Page 3

Denver Trauma Surgeon: "This is our lane!"

This is a discussion on Denver Trauma Surgeon: "This is our lane!" within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; How many murderers with guns were on psychiatric drugs and who was it that prescribed the psychiatric drugs to them?...

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  1. #31
    Member Array BeastOfBurden's Avatar
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    How many murderers with guns were on psychiatric drugs and who was it that prescribed the psychiatric drugs to them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Medical mistakes kill people. People with guns kill people. One reality doesn't invalidate the other.
    Nor does one grant moral authority over another. A LOT of physicians seem to think their voice is more important simply because of their chosen profession.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Nor does one grant moral authority over another. A LOT of physicians seem to think their voice is more important simply because of their chosen profession.
    Quite true, but that attribute isn't limited to members of the medical profession. Politicians and elected officials immediately come to mind.
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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Nor does one grant moral authority over another. A LOT of physicians seem to think their voice is more important simply because of their chosen profession.
    Physician learn one thing in medical school and residency above all else: "L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace."

    They are taught, quite viscerally, that the worst possible thing you can do is to say "I don't know." An answer, ANY answer, is far better than to utter those ignominious words!
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    Quote Originally Posted by PPS1980 View Post
    They are taught, quite viscerally, that the worst possible thing you can do is to say "I don't know." An answer, ANY answer, is far better than to utter those ignominious words!
    Unlike in my business - developing components and systems for military, commercial and business aircraft - providing an ill-informed answer for the safe of avoiding an "I don't know" is viewed as nearly criminal. But we don't have to face the people who ultimately rely on us to keep their airplanes getting to their destinations safely.
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    You are moving the goal posts here. There are many things more likely to kill me than gunfire, I'm simply not sure that medical mistake/malpractice is one of them.
    Iím not moving any goalposts. The discussion is about the AMA. Unless you believe they are world renowned experts on everything concerning firearms, then they are fair game. Name a subject not related to medicine that the AMA spends itís members money on lobbying.

    And if you ask almost anyone who has ever spent much time working in a hospital about med errors, maybe you might want to rethink the possibilities.

    This subject has been discussed here before. I stated then what Iíll repeat now. Medicine is one of a lot of fields of science that is so complex that anyone who claims that mistakes are not made, and made relatively often, just isnít paying attention.

    People defend medicine by pointing out how many lives are saved compared to how many are lost. Sound familiar from discussions about guns? The point is that on the list of things that kill people, guns are almost at the bottom. Hospital issues affect far more people, as does disease. Starting at the bottom of the list with an issue you concede youíre not an expert in and citing studies youíve done, naturally draws laughter from experts in those fields.

    I donít expect anyone to take my word for it. Spend some time researching the subject. But lastly ask yourself what solution the AMA puts forth and I suspect youíll come to the right conclusion. Itís the same solution we hear all the time. Disarm all law-abiding Americans and youíll fix the gun problem. Really doc?
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    @OldChap ,

    You refer to carnage as a justification. So do the Doctors. I have seen carnage in war and a civilian news photographer. I understand carnage from the perspective.tive of a witness. But this is not about carnage. It is about reducing carnage. The Docs want to reduce it. I and many here want to reduce it too. But we will never do that without a meeiting of the minds.

    The old notion that things get better when people engage in common sense and fair dealing guides my life.
    I agree. But you will give us a name when you find one, wonít you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Iím not moving any goalposts. The discussion is about the AMA. Unless you believe they are world renowned experts on everything concerning firearms, then they are fair game. Name a subject not related to medicine that the AMA spends itís members money on lobbying.

    And if you ask almost anyone who has ever spent much time working in a hospital about med errors, maybe you might want to rethink the possibilities.

    This subject has been discussed here before. I stated then what Iíll repeat now. Medicine is one of a lot of fields of science that is so complex that anyone who claims that mistakes are not made, and made relatively often, just isnít paying attention.

    People defend medicine by pointing out how many lives are saved compared to how many are lost. Sound familiar from discussions about guns? The point is that on the list of things that kill people, guns are almost at the bottom. Hospital issues affect far more people, as does disease. Starting at the bottom of the list with an issue you concede youíre not an expert in and citing studies youíve done, naturally draws laughter from experts in those fields.

    I donít expect anyone to take my word for it. Spend some time researching the subject. But lastly ask yourself what solution the AMA puts forth and I suspect youíll come to the right conclusion. Itís the same solution we hear all the time. Disarm all law-abiding Americans and youíll fix the gun problem. Really doc?
    I know what solutions the AMA puts forth. While I disagree with those solutions, they have every right to put them forward in the public arena.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    I agree. But you will give us a name when you find one, wonít you?
    OK.

    ďNothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing.Ē Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Example: JFK and Kruchev resolving the Cuban Missile Crisis by trading off Russian missiles in Cuba for US missiles in Turkey. Thatonw avoided the,last world war, which would have ended all wars in the worst way possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    I know what solutions the AMA puts forth. While I disagree with those solutions, they have every right to put them forward in the public arena.
    Then we agree that anyone who does put forth ill-informed opinions runs the risk of experts telling them to ďstay in their lanesĒ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    Then we agree that anyone who does put forth ill-informed opinions runs the risk of experts telling them to ďstay in their lanesĒ?
    Sure, just like the "experts" run the risk of harsh retorts.
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  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    OK.

    ďNothing astonishes men so much as common sense and plain dealing.Ē Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Example: JFK and Kruchev resolving the Cuban Missile Crisis by trading off Russian missiles in Cuba for US missiles in Turkey. Thatonw avoided the,last world war, which would have ended all wars in the worst way possible.

    I was on the USNS Rankin off Cuba when that agreement ended the Cuban Missile Crisis.
    No argument there, but you do realize that we donít live in a world where people operate according to those principles any more?
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

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  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Sure, just like the "experts" run the risk of harsh retorts.
    And once again Iím puzzled that people who carry guns for protection seem to side with those who would disarm us. Maybe Iím wrong, but it sounds like some folks dislike the NRA and their defense of the 2nd Amendment more than the AMA who sound as if they would love to throw God-given rights, protected by the Constitution, out with the trash.

    Iím confused here. Straighten me out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldChap View Post
    And once again Iím puzzled that people who carry guns for protection seem to side with those who would disarm us. Maybe Iím wrong, but it sounds like some folks dislike the NRA and their defense of the 2nd Amendment more than the AMA who sound as if they would love to throw God-given rights, protected by the Constitution, out with the trash.

    Iím confused here. Straighten me out.
    Stating that those with whom I disagree enjoy the right of free expression is a far cry from siding with them.
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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Stating that those with whom I disagree enjoy the right of free expression is a far cry from siding with them.
    IMHO free speech is a given. Maybe I misread some posts, or more likely didnít understand, but it seemed there was a sense that the NRA should have expected criticism for their comments and was somehow wrong for calling out the AMA. Iím sure they didnít expect the AMA to cave to their criticism and fully expected their response.

    IMHO the time is approaching when we will have to stand and be counted, or go down without so much as a whimper. I hope Iím wrong about that too.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits."

    My avatar is of Princess. We lost her after many years. Her little sweater says, "Meet me under the Misltletoe."

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