Where do LEOs and Military Members stand? With American people or w/ Politicians? - Page 5

Where do LEOs and Military Members stand? With American people or w/ Politicians?

This is a discussion on Where do LEOs and Military Members stand? With American people or w/ Politicians? within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by AzQkr It's called exigent circumstances, and fully legal according to SCOTUS. Decades now. Do you know which court case this was by ...

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  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Havok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    It's called exigent circumstances, and fully legal according to SCOTUS. Decades now.
    Do you know which court case this was by chance? The only one I found in my quick google search was Brigham city v Stuart, and the situation was much different than this.
    We get the government we deserve.

  2. #62
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok View Post
    Do you know which court case this was by chance? The only one I found in my quick google search was Brigham city v Stuart, and the situation was much different than this.
    I don't remember from the academy training, been too long ago now. Exigency is however recognized by the courts, and usually taken on a case by case basis as to whether exigency existed.
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  3. #63
    VIP Member Array graydude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    It's called exigent circumstances, and fully legal according to SCOTUS. Decades now.
    It may have been legal, but I question the decision to execute such a large scale door to door operation. The mayor and police chief made what they thought was the best decision at the time, but it looked to me like an out of proportion emotional response driven by fear, politics, and optics.

    The risks created by the operation were potentially as bad as what might have happened if they took a slower and less brute force approach.

    Martial law was imposed and residents forcefully removed from their homes at gunpoint. Many of the LEO's involved were probably beyond a normal duty day, tired, and on edge. Everyone involved was lucky no one was shot by mistake, because once bullets started flying it would have been a bloody mess. Hats off to the guys on the streets who at least executed good trigger control when an accidental shooting could have resulted from such a massive and rushed search.
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  5. #64
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graydude View Post
    It may have been legal, but I question the decision to execute such a large scale door to door operation. The mayor and police chief made what they thought was the best decision at the time, but it looked to me like an out of proportion emotional response driven by fear, politics, and optics.

    The risks created by the operation were potentially as bad as what might have happened if they took a slower and less brute force approach.

    Martial law was imposed and residents forcefully removed from their homes at gunpoint. Many of the LEO's involved were probably beyond a normal duty day, tired, and on edge. Everyone involved was lucky no one was shot by mistake, because once bullets started flying it would have been a bloody mess. Hats off to the guys on the streets who at least executed good trigger control when an accidental shooting could have resulted from such a massive and rushed search.
    The feds rolled in and took over command directing all involved agencies. Like most scenario's, the search was the first of it's kind in modern times, and mistakes were made, lessons learned which will be adjusted/incorporated into any future similar endeavors.

    I think many forget that unless you sheltered in without radio, tv or other outside broadcasts, residents in the search areas were well aware they were going to be visited by leo's conducting a search for the remaining terrorist/brother.
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  6. #65
    Senior Member Array baren's Avatar
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    I still remember New Orleans after Katrina and weapons being taken by LEO and National Guards. That might be a strong indicator how the would react. If the Government, be it State or Federal, spin the justification is going to be the question.
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    Gun Confiscation during Katrina

    Quote Originally Posted by baren View Post
    I still remember New Orleans after Katrina and weapons being taken by LEO and National Guards. That might be a strong indicator how the would react. If the Government, be it State or Federal, spin the justification is going to be the question.

    Excellent point! I had forgotten about that. Those videos showed outright contempt and confiscation of legally owned firearms of law-abiding Americans by LEOs "just doing their job." Those videos were disgusting to watch
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  8. #67
    Member Array tnsoldier4fun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzQkr View Post
    Have you ever lived in New England? Mass.? and specifically Boston to make such statements through experience and living there?
    No, I've never lived in the NE of the country, much less in Boston or even within Mass. Are you trying to tell me that the average person from there is just as conservative as someone from the South or someplace like Wyoming? Are you trying to say that the people in the NE aren't much more "what the gov't. does is okay" oriented and typically don't fight the gov't. on the things it does? Because if you are, then we must be living in two different Americas.

    And just for clarity, it wasn't just Boston PD and FBI that were involved in the search. Mass. State police; Suffolk County Sheriffs officers, Middlesex County sheriffs officers, atf, Watertown PD, Arlington PD and a few other dept's assisting.
    For anyone that wasn't brain dead, that was obvious. The news was proclaiming all the different departments participating at one time or the other during their broadcasts.

    Exigency existed in this case which allowed them to search door to door for the remaining terrorist brother. NO lawsuits have been successfully adjudicated against any of the above regarding their action that day/night in several communities. What's that tell YOU? I know what it tells me, whether you agree with their actions or not.
    No one is denying that a terrorist on the loose is a dangerous situation. What is a fact is that the general population in that area is acknowledged as being very liberal about government control of things, including people's rights. As such, I'm sure that most of the population was more than cooperative when LEOs came knocking at their door. As a result, I'm sure that very, very few lawsuits concerning police forcing entry were ever filed. With that kind of attitude also being pervasive throughout the courts in that area, I'm also quite sure that, if there were any, they got quickly shot down by the courts in that area. However, that might not have been the case had the incident happened in another area, say like in Atlanta during the 1996 Olympic Games. The incidents were quite similar, if you'll remember. You happen to see the FBI and the rest of the alphabet agencies, along with the state and local folks, doing house-to-house back then in the hours after the incident? If you answered no, you'd be correct. Why? Who knows unless they were in the war room but I think it could be accurately said that exigent circumstances existed in both incidents.

    Now, while I might not have first-hand information on the general population's thinking in the Commonwealth of Mass, or the NE region, I do have accurate second-hand information in that area from both an uncle who was born in Mass and an ex-wife born in NY. There's also the information I gleaned from my conversations with hundreds of folks I served with from that region during a more than 20 year career in the military. Just because I haven't done it myself doesn't mean I can't figure out that it's not the smartest move to jump off a tall bridge without a parachute or a bungee cord, so I don't have to live there to know a few things about the region.
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  9. #68
    Ex Member Array AzQkr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnsoldier4fun View Post
    No, I've never lived in the NE of the country, much less in Boston or even within Mass. Are you trying to tell me that the average person from there is just as conservative as someone from the South or someplace like Wyoming? Are you trying to say that the people in the NE aren't much more "what the gov't. does is okay" oriented and typically don't fight the gov't. on the things it does? Because if you are, then we must be living in two different Americas.



    For anyone that wasn't brain dead, that was obvious. The news was proclaiming all the different departments participating at one time or the other during their broadcasts.



    No one is denying that a terrorist on the loose is a dangerous situation. What is a fact is that the general population in that area is acknowledged as being very liberal about government control of things, including people's rights. As such, I'm sure that most of the population was more than cooperative when LEOs came knocking at their door. As a result, I'm sure that very, very few lawsuits concerning police forcing entry were ever filed. With that kind of attitude also being pervasive throughout the courts in that area, I'm also quite sure that, if there were any, they got quickly shot down by the courts in that area. However, that might not have been the case had the incident happened in another area, say like in Atlanta during the 1996 Olympic Games. The incidents were quite similar, if you'll remember. You happen to see the FBI and the rest of the alphabet agencies, along with the state and local folks, doing house-to-house back then in the hours after the incident? If you answered no, you'd be correct. Why? Who knows unless they were in the war room but I think it could be accurately said that exigent circumstances existed in both incidents.

    Now, while I might not have first-hand information on the general population's thinking in the Commonwealth of Mass, or the NE region, I do have accurate second-hand information in that area from both an uncle who was born in Mass and an ex-wife born in NY. There's also the information I gleaned from my conversations with hundreds of folks I served with from that region during a more than 20 year career in the military. Just because I haven't done it myself doesn't mean I can't figure out that it's not the smartest move to jump off a tall bridge without a parachute or a bungee cord, so I don't have to live there to know a few things about the region.
    You seem to be sure of a lot of things you admittedly know nothing about but to generalize. Nuff said.

  10. #69
    Distinguished Member Array xXxHeavy's Avatar
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    I was there at the 225th Anniversary battle re-encatment of Battle Road April 19, 1775. Lexington and Concord......I was a participating member of Whitcomb's Rangers, a responding militia company from the Marble Head area......it was a staggering, mind altering event for many to say the least. Real tears and crying moans... Should history ever repeat itself, it would probably be the downfall of our society as we know it today. It was that massive of a gut wrenching event on this country........I pray we never have to take arms against our brothers here.......but when is enough...Enough.
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    Why did the Moron buy a ladder...... he's takin' his case to a higher court.

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