Third Circuit: Second Amendment is a Second Rate Right - Page 3

Third Circuit: Second Amendment is a Second Rate Right

This is a discussion on Third Circuit: Second Amendment is a Second Rate Right within the The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; Originally Posted by flintlock62 Guess what? "We, The People" are the militia. Actually we are not unless we actually join a militia. That legal concept ...

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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by flintlock62 View Post
    Guess what? "We, The People" are the militia.
    Actually we are not unless we actually join a militia. That legal concept is pre Revolution.Militias members join. It actually cites thatfactin Heller. However people can start a militia on their own with the only Constitutional requirement of being “well regulated” as stated in 2A. When written the term “well regulated” only meant properly organized and operated but not approved or controlled by government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    Actually we are not unless we actually join a militia. That legal concept is pre Revolution.Militias members join. It actually cites thatfactin Heller. However people can start a militia on their own with the only Constitutional requirement of being “well regulated” as stated in 2A. When written the term “well regulated” only meant properly organized and operated but not approved or controlled by government.
    And be classified by said government as a domestic terrorist organization...
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    Third Circuit: Second Amendment is a Second Rate Right

    Quote Originally Posted by flintlock62 View Post
    Guess what? "We, The People" are the militia.
    1942bull’s response is exactly why the key to the 2A is “right of the people”. Liberals want to argue what a militia is. Whether it is formal national guard, organized groups that call themselves militia, or every able bodied man is not pertinent because it is the right of the “people”, not the “militia”. The “right of the people” is never considered not to be every individual person when it comes to the 1A or 4A, so it should be the same for the 2A. Arguing the meaning of “militia” is just a diversionary argument that we should not engage in because it should have no bearing on the “right of the people to keep and bear arms”.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    Actually we are not unless we actually join a militia. That legal concept is pre Revolution.Militias members join. It actually cites thatfactin Heller. However people can start a militia on their own with the only Constitutional requirement of being “well regulated” as stated in 2A. When written the term “well regulated” only meant properly organized and operated but not approved or controlled by government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by danco View Post
    How do you get a "split decision" with a three-judge panel?
    Split, as opposed to unanimous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flintlock62 View Post
    Guess what? "We, The People" are the militia.
    We, the People are the ones who ensure that the militias are well-regulated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by danco View Post
    That's a decision, there's no split about it. A split-decision implies no decision was reached...
    Not in boxing.


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  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    Actually we are not unless we actually join a militia. That legal concept is pre Revolution.Militias members join. It actually cites thatfactin Heller. However people can start a militia on their own with the only Constitutional requirement of being “well regulated” as stated in 2A. When written the term “well regulated” only meant properly organized and operated but not approved or controlled by government.
    I must disagree. The US Constitution defines the militia of the United States as all able bodied males over 17 and under 45 years of age. This is the legal foundation of the Militia Act in US Code, containing the same definition. Since that time we have added legal protections against discrimination on the basis of age, sex, and physical handicaps, so effectively the militia now consists of all adults.

    Where people seem to get confused is lumping together all the various forms of militia, which include the popular militia (see above), the select militia (police, sheriffs, national guard), and the active armed forces. Those three categories together comprise the militia, with some enlisted or enrolled for specific terms of service and the remainder always subject to call in emergencies.

    Some persons are exempted from militia service (mentally incompetent, convicted felons, those displaying moral turpitude, certain conscientious objectors, etc), but even those categories are flexible in times of emergency. Convicts were actually drafted during WW2, for example, and some conscientious objectors were pressed into non-combat positions.

    The Militia Act has always been the legal basis for Selective Service (the draft).

    Most, if not all, state constitutions have their own definitions of the state militia, generally similar. The only difference between the US militia and state militias is the authority to activate and deploy, with the US militia under federal control and the various state militias under state control.

    State national guard units are under state control, however can be 'federalized' by presidential order thus removing state control and assuming federal control, a procedure that arguably negates the states' rights to militia control (something that happened when the states accepted federal funding of national guard units, with final control passed on to the federal government). Once a national guard unit (or individual officer or soldier) is federalized there is no longer any state control at all.

    Like it or not, we "the people" are the militia, in fact and at law.

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    What is the evidence supporting the claim that low capacity mags enhance public safety?
    Rifled barrels are well suited to military use too.
    There is no logic in these arguments. The only conclusion I can make is that judges are ruling on personal opinion rather than the merits of the testimony.


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    @retired badge 1 , I stand corrected. Thank you for the informative post #38 above. I was not aware of that. So this morning I am a bit better informed thanks to you
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    Quote Originally Posted by retired badge 1 View Post
    I must disagree. The US Constitution defines the militia of the United States as all able bodied males over 17 and under 45 years of age. This is the legal foundation of the Militia Act in US Code, containing the same definition. Since that time we have added legal protections against discrimination on the basis of age, sex, and physical handicaps, so effectively the militia now consists of all adults.

    Where people seem to get confused is lumping together all the various forms of militia, which include the popular militia (see above), the select militia (police, sheriffs, national guard), and the active armed forces. Those three categories together comprise the militia, with some enlisted or enrolled for specific terms of service and the remainder always subject to call in emergencies.

    Some persons are exempted from militia service (mentally incompetent, convicted felons, those displaying moral turpitude, certain conscientious objectors, etc), but even those categories are flexible in times of emergency. Convicts were actually drafted during WW2, for example, and some conscientious objectors were pressed into non-combat positions.

    The Militia Act has always been the legal basis for Selective Service (the draft).

    Most, if not all, state constitutions have their own definitions of the state militia, generally similar. The only difference between the US militia and state militias is the authority to activate and deploy, with the US militia under federal control and the various state militias under state control.

    State national guard units are under state control, however can be 'federalized' by presidential order thus removing state control and assuming federal control, a procedure that arguably negates the states' rights to militia control (something that happened when the states accepted federal funding of national guard units, with final control passed on to the federal government). Once a national guard unit (or individual officer or soldier) is federalized there is no longer any state control at all.

    Like it or not, we "the people" are the militia, in fact and at law.
    You said it better than I did. The militia, as originally conceived, was composed of farmers, merchants, slave hands, and otherwise John Q public. If the original contention was to restrict the militia in terms of "you can only possess weapons if and when the standing army, or the government says you can, we would have been in deep doo doo. Firearms were not distributed, purchased, and controlled to the militia by government mandates, they were owned by individuals. You, and me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1942bull View Post
    Not so. The following quote is from a popular legal dictionary.

    Split Decision
    A decision by an appellate court that is not unanimous.
    When the members of an appellate court cannot reach full agreement, a split decision occurs. A split decision is distinct from a unanimous decision in which all the judges join in agreement. In a split decision, the will of the majority of the judges is binding, and one member of the majority delivers the opinion of the court itself.
    I sit (at my desk), corrected. Thanks for cluing me in...
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    Looking back on my earlier post I realize that I was wrong. The US Constitution does not specify the membership of the US Militia; the Constitution only authorizes the militia. The Militia Act (part of the US Code) is the enabling legislation and contains the provisions described as to membership in the Militia. The legal effect remains the same, as only my reporting is erroneous. THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES COMPRISE THE MILITIA OF THE UNITED STATES, thus all the tedious arguments about the meaning of the Second Amendment amount to nothing more than rhetoric.

    My apology for the error.

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